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Author Topic: Damn you Democrats! You got me agreeing with Bush...  (Read 735 times)
Ron Mars
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« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2008, 06:33:22 AM »

The irony about this Doctrine was that it was introduced 20 years ago by the Reagan Administration.  It was dropped after a realization came that more and more pundits were conservative.  It is a pointless doctrine to begin with in my opinion, and I do disagree with it, I am just surprised that some dems are picking up an old Reagan torch.

The Fairness Doctrine was introduced in an atmosphere of anti-Communist sentiment in the U.S. in 1949 (Report on Editorializing by Broadcast Licensees, 13 F.C.C. 1246 [1949]).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

By 1985, the FCC issued its Fairness Report, asserting that the doctrine was no longer having its intended effect, might actually have a "chilling effect" and might be in violation of the First Amendment. In a 1987 case, Meredith Corp. v. FCC, the courts declared that the doctrine was not mandated by Congress and the FCC did not have to continue to enforce it. The FCC dissolved the doctrine in August of that year.

However, before the Commission's action, in the spring of 1987, both houses of Congress voted to put the fairness doctrine into law--a statutory fairness doctrine which the FCC would have to enforce, like it or not. But President Reagan, in keeping with his deregulatory efforts and his long-standing favor of keeping government out of the affairs of business, vetoed the legislation. There were insufficient votes to override the veto. Congressional efforts to make the doctrine into law surfaced again during the Bush administration. As before, the legislation was vetoed, this time by Bush
.
http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/F/htmlF/fairnessdoct/fairnessdoct.htm

I'm not surprised that, once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yet another dime-a-dozen liberal.
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Perrin
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 06:39:42 AM »

The irony about this Doctrine was that it was introduced 20 years ago by the Reagan Administration.  It was dropped after a realization came that more and more pundits were conservative.  It is a pointless doctrine to begin with in my opinion, and I do disagree with it, I am just surprised that some dems are picking up an old Reagan torch.

The Fairness Doctrine was introduced in an atmosphere of anti-Communist sentiment in the U.S. in 1949 (Report on Editorializing by Broadcast Licensees, 13 F.C.C. 1246 [1949]).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

By 1985, the FCC issued its Fairness Report, asserting that the doctrine was no longer having its intended effect, might actually have a "chilling effect" and might be in violation of the First Amendment. In a 1987 case, Meredith Corp. v. FCC, the courts declared that the doctrine was not mandated by Congress and the FCC did not have to continue to enforce it. The FCC dissolved the doctrine in August of that year.

However, before the Commission's action, in the spring of 1987, both houses of Congress voted to put the fairness doctrine into law--a statutory fairness doctrine which the FCC would have to enforce, like it or not. But President Reagan, in keeping with his deregulatory efforts and his long-standing favor of keeping government out of the affairs of business, vetoed the legislation. There were insufficient votes to override the veto. Congressional efforts to make the doctrine into law surfaced again during the Bush administration. As before, the legislation was vetoed, this time by Bush
.
http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/F/htmlF/fairnessdoct/fairnessdoct.htm

I'm not surprised that, once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Yet another dime-a-dozen liberal.

Thank you for finding that info.  I was going based on memory and it was faulty.  Though the personal attack was not called for.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2008, 07:35:32 AM »

The left has already tried to make a radio program.

It's not the right's fault that they suck.

Is this based on personal experience?

Have you actually ever even listened to any leftist radio programs?

Your the one who started this thread. Why don't you quit just bashing the left and actually debate the issue?

lol

I think it's great that I'm accused by the right of being too "left"... and accused by the left of being too "right"...

Ever think I may be neither?

Anyway, I don't listen to the radio much. I listen to NPR if I want politics on the road, but generally, I get my stuff from the internet, TV and newspaper.

And regardless of what *I* think, the majority of radio listeners want to hear idiots like Rush and Bennet. Franken tries to jump in and faceplants.

It's the market sorting itself out... and the particular consumers in this market don't like the left.

DEAL WITH IT.
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Ron Mars
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 11:34:03 AM »

Thank you for finding that info.  I was going based on memory and it was faulty.

Happens to everyone from time to time and perfectly understandable.

Though the personal attack was not called for.

Yes, it was called for. Liar....Troll.... any of this sound familiar?
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Perrin
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« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 12:59:43 PM »

Thank you for finding that info.  I was going based on memory and it was faulty.

Happens to everyone from time to time and perfectly understandable.

Though the personal attack was not called for.

Yes, it was called for. Liar....Troll.... any of this sound familiar?

Yup, I have called you both after you refused to concede a losing point.  What is your point again?
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Ron Mars
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« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2008, 01:21:22 PM »

Yup, I have called you both after you refused to concede a losing point.  What is your point again?

Losing point? WTF?

You stated Congress was sent "limited intel" and therefore you understood why they cast their vote to remove Saddam and made statements similar to Bush's.

You know that's BS, right? Congress was denied nothing. Bush laid it all out for the same reason Eisenhower forced German citizens to go to the concentration camps to witness what was there.

When asked why he did that, Eisenhower responded: "Some day some SOB will come along and say we made it all up"

You are that SOB Perrin. You are the one denying that Congress was given everything the Bush Administration had.

You have yet to admit that.
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freethinker
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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2008, 01:39:21 PM »

Quote
You are that SOB Perrin. You are the one denying that Congress was given everything the Bush Administration had.
Its true Perrin,...not the SOB part...But all the administration had were lies, and that's what they gave congress ...LIES. So when Ron from Mars says "Congress was given everything the Bush Administration had." He is being accurate.
 I might say "Yet another dime-a-dozen Bushbot."  But really they are such a rare commodity these days they surely must be worth more than .83333 cents. Just due to their rarity they must be worth about a nickel. Yeah that's about right ...the same as an empty bottle.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 02:05:21 PM by freethinker » Logged

Yes we can ...and now we will...
freethinker
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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2008, 01:50:39 PM »

 The fairness doctrine was predicated on the concept that "the airwaves belonged to the people" Unlike newspapers and books there was little choice of what to listen to. Many rural towns in America had at best one radio or TV channel. The government saw that the opportunity was there for cooperate power to abuse the "only show in town" media and slant public opinion by presenting only one political view. The fairness doctrine was a good idea and served the country well under the circumstances.
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Perrin
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« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2008, 04:56:43 PM »

Yup, I have called you both after you refused to concede a losing point.  What is your point again?

Losing point? WTF?

You stated Congress was sent "limited intel" and therefore you understood why they cast their vote to remove Saddam and made statements similar to Bush's.

You know that's BS, right? Congress was denied nothing. Bush laid it all out for the same reason Eisenhower forced German citizens to go to the concentration camps to witness what was there.

When asked why he did that, Eisenhower responded: "Some day some SOB will come along and say we made it all up"

You are that SOB Perrin. You are the one denying that Congress was given everything the Bush Administration had.

You have yet to admit that.

I am sorry you feel this way, but in the interest of keeping the conversation more civil I have reported your insults.  They do not hurt me in any way, but they do lower the bar for a decent discussion and are against forum rules.  I do thank you again for providing the information relevant for this thread though.  I hope we will be able to keep this civilized in the future.
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Buzz
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« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2008, 06:32:38 PM »

Quote
The left has already tried to make a radio program.

It's not the right's fault that they suck.

Is this based on personal experience?

Have you actually ever even listened to any leftist radio programs?

Your the one who started this thread. Why don't you quit just bashing the left and actually debate the issue?

I have. I've listened in spurts several times to Randi Rhodes (not the guitar player.) Talk about depressing. I had to keep myself from sharp objects for about 5 hours after listening to that vitriol. Pure hate is an ugly thing and I'd rather not waste my time.

I guess they are still on the air.

Well... I don't particularly like Randi either. But your use of the words "vitriol" and "pure hate" are so typical of conservatives who slander the left on a daily basis that I doubt if you came up with that description by yourself. And if you really believe that those words are a fair description of her show than what words do you use to describe the garbage that comes from right wing pundits? While Rhodes is probably the most hateful of the pundits on Air America Radio she is no worse that most on the right.

You do waste your time listening to the vitriol and pure hate from the right, do you not?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 07:18:22 PM by Buzz » Logged
Buzz
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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2008, 06:47:18 PM »

The problem I have is that what passes for discourse on TV and radio is starkly limited by the establishment. Limbaugh, Olbermann, O'Reilly, Franken, etc. are simply hacks, in most cases partisan hacks. True non-conformists, either of the left or right, are shut out. Where are people like Alexander Cockburn, Joe Sobran, Steve Sailer, Jeffrey St. Clair and others like them? Perhaps the establishment doesn't want their messages out, eh?

OswaldTheOsprey

I have heard you equate right wing pundits like Rush and Bill to left wing pundits like Al and Kieth time and time again but you never give any evidence what so ever to show that they are, in fact, equal. Not even once. Why is that?

Al Franken and Kieth Olbermann are not hacks like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'reilly are. I actually listen to or watch all 4 of these pundits and know for a fact that you are wrong.

When I listen to Rush or Bill I see and hear all kinds of BS all the time. And I am not talking about differences of opinion. I am talking about outright lies and misinformation. But when i watch or listen to Al and Kieth I do not find hardly any instances of anything even close to the garbage coming from the right. And not only have I never heard any examples from you I have also never seen anything from anyone on the right concerning Olbermann. Not ever, not even once. And every thing I have seen about Al were just a few minor errors in a couple of Al's books. Never anything concerning his radio show. The only thing I have ever seen is just the same kind of unsubstantiated slander that I see coming from you.

Now if you want to back up your opinions with some facts I would love to see what you got.
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Buzz
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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2008, 07:13:13 PM »

The left has already tried to make a radio program.

It's not the right's fault that they suck.

Is this based on personal experience?

Have you actually ever even listened to any leftist radio programs?

Your the one who started this thread. Why don't you quit just bashing the left and actually debate the issue?

lol

I think it's great that I'm accused by the right of being too "left"... and accused by the left of being too "right"...

Ever think I may be neither?

I never said you are too right or too left. And I know that you often argue against both the right and the left but here all you seem interested in is bashing the left.

Anyway, I don't listen to the radio much. I listen to NPR if I want politics on the road, but generally, I get my stuff from the internet, TV and newspaper.

So... you don't really know if left wing radio sucks then do you?

And regardless of what *I* think, the majority of radio listeners want to hear idiots like Rush and Bennet. Franken tries to jump in and faceplants.

It's the market sorting itself out... and the particular consumers in this market don't like the left.

DEAL WITH IT.

Just because most listeners want to hear right wing radio does not mean that left wing radio sucks. And Al had about a million and a half listeners. While that is not a lot compared to people like Rush it is still a significant number of people who regularly enjoyed his show. I know I did.

Once again I have to ask: Do you think that since you brought this topic up you could actually debate it?
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Abraxas
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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2008, 07:51:13 PM »

I never said you are too right or too left. And I know that you often argue against both the right and the left but here all you seem interested in is bashing the left.

All I'm intrested in is keeping media FREE of government benchmarks or expectations.

Let the listeners decide. If people WANTED to hear Franken, he would still have a show, but he doesn't.

I really liked a show called "Crusade" but I understand that more people didn't, and rather than complain that there isn't enough representation of science fiction on TV, I sucked it up and moved on.

I don't see this as any different.

Quote from: Buzz
So... you don't really know if left wing radio sucks then do you?

What *I* think is irelevent.

Radio listeners, as a general population, decided it sucked and not enough people listened to it. As a result, it failed.

Quote from: Buzz
Just because most listeners want to hear right wing radio does not mean that left wing radio sucks. And Al had about a million and a half listeners. While that is not a lot compared to people like Rush it is still a significant number of people who regularly enjoyed his show. I know I did.

Once again I have to ask: Do you think that since you brought this topic up you could actually debate it?

I already gave my opposition to the idea.

If his show was so great and enjoyed by more people, it wouldn't have failed. But it did. Again, the personal qualms of the million and a half listeners must be less significant than people's appreciation for Rush, Bennet and the bitch who sits in for O'Reilly every once in a while.

I'm not saying I like those people but OBVIOUSLY somebody does...
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky

... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2008, 08:21:37 PM »

The problem I have is that what passes for discourse on TV and radio is starkly limited by the establishment. Limbaugh, Olbermann, O'Reilly, Franken, etc. are simply hacks, in most cases partisan hacks. True non-conformists, either of the left or right, are shut out. Where are people like Alexander Cockburn, Joe Sobran, Steve Sailer, Jeffrey St. Clair and others like them? Perhaps the establishment doesn't want their messages out, eh?

OswaldTheOsprey

I have heard you equate right wing pundits like Rush and Bill to left wing pundits like Al and Kieth time and time again but you never give any evidence what so ever to show that they are, in fact, equal. Not even once. Why is that?

Al Franken and Kieth Olbermann are not hacks like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'reilly are. I actually listen to or watch all 4 of these pundits and know for a fact that you are wrong.

When I listen to Rush or Bill I see and hear all kinds of BS all the time. And I am not talking about differences of opinion. I am talking about outright lies and misinformation. But when i watch or listen to Al and Kieth I do not find hardly any instances of anything even close to the garbage coming from the right. And not only have I never heard any examples from you I have also never seen anything from anyone on the right concerning Olbermann. Not ever, not even once. And every thing I have seen about Al were just a few minor errors in a couple of Al's books. Never anything concerning his radio show. The only thing I have ever seen is just the same kind of unsubstantiated slander that I see coming from you.

Now if you want to back up your opinions with some facts I would love to see what you got.

I detest them all just as I detest both major parties. It is not a case of being equal or unequal, although I doubt a hyperpartisan like yourself would understand. You see things in terms of bad evil GOP vs. pure divine Democratic where as I consider  both to be quite sinister.

All of the TV, radio  pundits, with the honorable exceptions of Pat Buchanan and Lou Dobbs, are worthless. None of the rest show the slightest understanding of Americanist values or ideals. All support militarism but disagree perhaps on where to drop the bombs, all support international capitalism which provides them all with lavish incomes and lifestyles suitable to their monstrous egos. What they don't like is each other and on that I can agree with them.

OswaldTheOsprey
 
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Buzz
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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2008, 08:22:32 PM »

I never said you are too right or too left. And I know that you often argue against both the right and the left but here all you seem interested in is bashing the left.

All I'm intrested in is keeping media FREE of government benchmarks or expectations.

Well... thank you. That is your first bit of reasoning concerning the fairness doctrine that wasn't just an attack on liberals.

Let the listeners decide. If people WANTED to hear Franken, he would still have a show, but he doesn't.

Now you are just plain wrong. Franken didn't loose his show because of a lack of listeners as he had plenty to make his show profitable. Al quit his show so that he could run for Congress.

Quote from: Buzz
So... you don't really know if left wing radio sucks then do you?

What *I* think is irelevent.

Radio listeners, as a general population, decided it sucked and not enough people listened to it. As a result, it failed.

Again... you are wrong. Left wing radio has not failed. At least not Air America Radio because they are still in business.

Quote from: Buzz
Just because most listeners want to hear right wing radio does not mean that left wing radio sucks. And Al had about a million and a half listeners. While that is not a lot compared to people like Rush it is still a significant number of people who regularly enjoyed his show. I know I did.

Once again I have to ask: Do you think that since you brought this topic up you could actually debate it?

I already gave my opposition to the idea.

If his show was so great and enjoyed by more people, it wouldn't have failed. But it did. Again, the personal qualms of the million and a half listeners must be less significant than people's appreciation for Rush, Bennet and the bitch who sits in for O'Reilly every once in a while.

I'm not saying I like those people but OBVIOUSLY somebody does...

Again...Al Franken's show did not fail. And while Al's listeners may have been significantly less than the big boys like Rush, his numbers were more than most right wing pundits.

Abraxas... your basing some of your opinions on incorrect information.
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