TIBET

pengy

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #330 on: May 15, 2008, 05:14:28 AM »

I stand corrected. Some pictures I have seen of American Indian reservations looked pretty awful, though.

Here's a good article.

For about half a century now, Tibet has been used in the West at large as a touchstone to vet nearly everyone’s moral attitude. Even the friendliest faces around me would, in an instant, turn frightful long ones, once the word “Tibet” somehow cropped up in any chitchat. Behind the about-face, I would imagine that the heart got, for some reasons, wretchedly sour, so much so that the conscience began a dreadful gnawing.

All about Tibet, a piece of the Chinese territory.

That gnaws at me too. So much so that I decided to venture a closer look at what the structure can be in this “Tibet syndrome”.

The Malicious

I am sure you know that these are the ones who see China as their mortal foe, and who have long made up their mind on using Tibet as a weapon against China. Such as the CIA, and other plotters at the centre of power in the West.

Their agenda has been in no guise: undoing or containing the communist China. To get China wreck on something or trip up on anything is their priority program. They had single-handedly contrived the “Tibet issue”, so as to use it as an implement for that end.

You can imagine then that manufacturing mendacity is just their job. Military invasion, illegal occupation, demographic and cultural genocide, human rights abuse … On the list goes.

In fact, being hysteric hypocrites are these guys’ specialty.

Commanding from the Capitol Hill, for example, Nancy Pelosi has made no secret of her pathological paranoia for anything remotely Chinese. While gripping the Dalai Lama’s hand in Dharamsala just recently, she sobbed a plaintive wail: “Tibet constitutes a challenge to the conscience of the world”, as a dramatic highlight to her moral attitude.

To boot, joins that Sans Frontieres “Tibet champion”, Robert Menard, who’s notoriously known for his vampiric voracity for political slush funds. They say he’s already booked his travel to Beijing in August.

For this clique, the truth is so important that it must be protected by lies.

Well, if these are those who could openly lie about the “weapons of mass destruction” somewhere on earth, they can as well spin the yarn of lies on Tibet all the way up Mount Qomolangma.

The Prejudiced

They epitomize the conviction that prejudice is more remote from truth than ignorance. They are tilted to view anything concerning Tibet through a contorted prism. To this circle, the truth is not important. It is even irrelevant.

In any event, the case for them is that China has colonized Tibet by force; and the presence of Han Chinese in Tibet is a sin anyway.

Thus, they claim themselves a foothold at Moral Mount Everest, and behold the Chinese peremptorily, whom they’ve already sat in the dock down there.

But if they are so moral, can they, I wonder, handle this plain but prime question: “do you really relish having Tibet revert to a theocracy characterized by serfdom, which was far darker than the Dark Ages in Europe in history?” Indeed, wasn’t the separation of the state from the church something in its history which the West has always gloated over?

In their observation of an issue which has been made over the decades infinitely complex, they have spurned the decent norms of objectivity, impartiality and neutrality, and kept only prejudice, jaundice and jealousy.

In addition, exaggeration, distortion, misrepresentations are their stock-in-trade. Should misinformation not even be enough, how about some disinformation? Take their mass media for example, remember their consummate calumny --- libelous labelings of certain media images of what happened recently in Lhasa?

They are masters at construing antonymy, as well. For example, a violent revolt in Tibet was to them a “peaceful demonstration”, whereas legitimate law-enforcement was “bloody crackdown”. When it comes to China, the rule of law was nothing but “brutal repression”. They showed sympathy to the felons in the riot and went “selectively blind” to their innocent victims, which included even an 8-month-old baby burned dead.

I have to ask: where is the conscience of those sanctimonious paranoiacs? How on earth can moral standards be pursued with double standards?

Before I forget, I should count into this pact such fellas as CNN’s Jack Cafferty and the Foxy Bill O’riley.

At their pleasure, their vocation will be to try and sway or skew public opinion, by virtue of their “weapon of mass distraction”.

The Ignorant

Then come the ignorant. These are the ones who have been, don’t you believe that that’s a patent of China, utterly brainwashed.

I am sure that since childhood, they began to be systematically fed on the diet of a slanted education, supplemented by the products of the two preceding clusters, plus the propaganda of the exile Tibetan government.

As a result, they have been brought up with a deep-seated conscionable grievance over Tibet.

Poor fellows, they must have all flunked on the subject of history. I would wager a month’s wage on 9 out of 10 of this category not knowing a tad of the history of relevance and why Tibet is so Chinese.

Uncritical acceptance is their second trait, when it comes to the agitprop of the ill-willed over Tibet. Their guidance is either a warped or a curbed perspective, which has prevented them from grasping the real truth. Over time, they’ve grown inured to their preconceptions, and insensible to the caveat of telling the partial truth from the whole truth and following nothing but the truth. As concerns Tibet, even the sternest commandment can pass into oblivion.

Compounding all this is an inveterate sense of moral superiority. In consequence, the more aggrieved they would get over Tibet, the more moral they’d wish to believe themselves to be. “Whatever you say, or whatever the truth is, I just don’t like China to own Tibet, because communism is nothing but immoral”. Therefore, the Chinese have to be presumed guilty, until proved innocent. But in the court of morality, the judge could well stray into the jury.

I even suspect that among this group, some had chosen just to imprison themselves in the jail of untruths, fearing to find out the actual truth which would topple their own system of moral values. To play ostrich might play even safer. That’d be at least an intellectual aftereffect of a surgical brainwash.

The Truth

Allow me to skip belabouring the obvious, a historical review, and just let facts speak for themselves.

The fact is that all the governments in the world recognize at all times China’s sovereignty over Tibet and none has ever recognized Tibet as an independent country. Isn’t this legitimate enough?

The fact is that Tibet has never been on the agenda of the UN Special Committee on Decolonization. Doesn’t this speak for itself?

And, the fact is that the majority of Tibetans in Tibet want to be Chinese. Don’t take my word for it. Poll them in the streets or villages right there.

The average Tibetans would, I expect, tell you that in a variety of socio-economic aspects, they in fact enjoy the status of a privileged ethnic group in China. Just for instance, the autonomous region is not liable to the central government for taxes, whereas the latter pours into it each year substantial subsidies to fund infrastructure construction, to develop the economy and improve the livelihood, to preserve the indigenous culture, and to provide the locals with advantaged access to education and medical care, in comparison with other parts of the country.

They would also tell you that the average life expectancy in Tibet has extended by over 30 years in the last 50 years, while the population been multiplied by nearly 3 times.

Don’t begin to frown, there have been out there a plethora of findings of independent academic researchers, especially in the last few decades, for corroboration.

I am sure that there have been troubles and problems, like ethnic discrimination or human rights abuse, as can occur anywhere in the country. But get it right, they are never statutory and systematic, and are certainly not the case with the overwhelming majority of the people there.

To say the least, the Tibetans in Tibet have never had to be corralled into something like the segregationist “Indian Reservations” somewhere in the western hemisphere, where the natives, having been robbed of their ancestral continent, are left to survive through casino franchises.

Conclusion

Malevolence, ignorance and bias have now approached horrendous proportions. This does call conscience into grave question.

I read of some remarks on some Western blogsites just lately which I found as comic as they were rancid. A frenzied amateur demagogue proposed: “let’s invade Tibet and drive the Chinese out.” Another guy growled: “we have to put Tibet under the UN, or NATO!”

Were those dopes trying furiously to drown themselves in their bath of conscience? But they sounded actually more like card-carrying terrorists. Would they, then, take part themselves in such military jingoism as they advocated? If so, for mercy’s sake, they’d better leave behind a will, telling where they’d wish to be buried soon.

Yes, Tibet now does constitute a challenge to conscience. And this is the conscience of stopping lying about Tibet and respecting the truth on Tibet.


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pengy

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #331 on: May 15, 2008, 05:23:53 AM »

Also good:

http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery04072008.html

"Not You! You!!!"
Tibet and Palestine

By URI AVNERY

"Hey! Take your hands off me! Not you! You!!!"--the voice of a young woman in the darkened cinema, an old joke.

"Hey! Take your hands off Tibet!" the international chorus is crying out, "But not from Chechnya! Not from the Basque homeland! And certainly not from Palestine!" And that is not a joke.

* * *

LIKE EVERYBODY else, I support the right of the Tibetan people to independence, or at least autonomy. Like everybody else, I condemn the actions of the Chinese government there. But unlike everybody else, I am not ready to join in the demonstrations.

Why? Because I have an uneasy feeling that somebody is washing my brain, that what is going on is an exercise in hypocrisy.

I don't mind a bit of manipulation. After all, it is not by accident that the riots started in Tibet on the eve of the Olympic Games in Beijing. That's alright. A people fighting for their freedom have the right to use any opportunity that presents itself to further their struggle.

I support the Tibetans in spite of it being obvious that the Americans are exploiting the struggle for their own purposes. Clearly, the CIA has planned and organized the riots, and the American media are leading the world-wide campaign. It is a part of the hidden struggle between the US, the reigning super-power, and China, the rising super-power - a new version of the "Great Game" that was played in central Asia in the 19th century by the British Empire and Russia. Tibet is a token in this game.

I am even ready to ignore the fact that the gentle Tibetans have carried out a murderous pogrom against innocent Chinese, killing women and men and burning homes and shops. Such detestable excesses do happen during a liberation struggle.

No, what is really bugging me is the hypocrisy of the world media. They storm and thunder about Tibet. In thousands of editorials and talk-shows they heap curses and invective on the evil China. It seems as if the Tibetans are the only people on earth whose right to independence is being denied by brutal force, that if only Beijing would take its dirty hands off the saffron-robed monks, everything would be alright in this, the best of all possible worlds.

* * *

THERE IS no doubt that the Tibetan people are entitled to rule their own country, to nurture their unique culture, to promote their religious institutions and to prevent foreign settlers from submerging them.

But are not the Kurds in Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria entitled to the same? The inhabitants of Western Sahara, whose territory is occupied by Morocco? The Basques in Spain? The Corsicans off the coast of France? And the list is long.

Why do the world's media adopt one independence struggle, but often cynically ignore another independence struggle? What makes the blood of one Tibetan redder than the blood of a thousand Africans in East Congo?

Again and again I try to find a satisfactory answer to this enigma. In vain.

Immanuel Kant demanded of us: "Act as if the principle by which you act were about to be turned into a universal law of nature." (Being a German philosopher, he expressed it in much more convoluted language.) Does the attitude towards the Tibetan problem conform to this rule? Does it reflect our attitude towards the struggle for independence of all other oppressed peoples?

Not at all.

* * *

WHAT, THEN, causes the international media to discriminate between the various liberation struggles that are going on throughout the world?

Here are some of the relevant considerations:

- Do the people seeking independence have an especially exotic culture?

- Are they an attractive people, i.e. "sexy" in the view of the media?

- Is the struggle headed by a charismatic personality who is liked by the media?

- It the oppressing government disliked by the media?

- Does the oppressing government belong to the pro-American camp? This is an important factor, since the United States dominates a large part of the international media, and its news agencies and TV networks largely define the agenda and the terminology of the news coverage.

- Are economic interests involved in the conflict?

- Does the oppressed people have gifted spokespersons, who are able to attract attention and manipulate the media?

* * *

FROM THESE points of view, there is nobody like the Tibetans. They enjoy ideal conditions.

Fringed by the Himalayas, they are located in one of the most beautiful landscapes on earth. For centuries, just to get there was an adventure. Their unique religion arouses curiosity and sympathy. Its non-violence is very attractive and elastic enough to cover even the ugliest atrocities, like the recent pogrom. The exiled leader, the Dalai Lama, is a romantic figure, a media rock-star. The Chinese regime is hated by many - by capitalists because it is a Communist dictatorship, by Communists because it has become capitalist. It promotes a crass and ugly materialism, the very opposite of the spiritual Buddhist monks, who spend their time in prayer and meditation.

When China builds a railway to the Tibetan capital over a thousand inhospitable kilometers, the West does not admire the engineering feat, but sees (quite rightly) an iron monster that brings hundreds of thousands of Han-Chinese settlers to the occupied territory.

And of course, China is a rising power, whose economic success threatens America's hegemony in the world. A large part of the ailing American economy already belongs directly or indirectly to China. The huge American Empire is sinking hopelessly into debt, and China may soon be the biggest lender. American manufacturing industry is moving to China, taking millions of jobs with it.

Compared to these factors, what have the Basques, for example, to offer? Like the Tibetans, they inhabit a contiguous territory, most of it in Spain, some of it in France. They, too, are an ancient people with their own language and culture. But these are not exotic and do not attract special notice. No prayer wheels. No robed monks.

The Basques do not have a romantic leader, like Nelson Mandela or the Dalai Lama. The Spanish state, which arose from the ruins of Franco's detested dictatorship, enjoys great popularity around the world. Spain belongs to the European Union, which is more or less in the American camp, sometimes more, sometimes less.

The armed struggle of the Basque underground is abhorred by many and is considered "terrorism", especially after Spain has accorded the Basques a far-reaching autonomy. In these circumstances, the Basques have no chance at all of gaining world support for independence.

The Chechnyans should have been in a better position. They, too, are a separate people, who have for a long time been oppressed by the Czars of the Russian Empire, including Stalin and Putin. But alas, they are Muslims - and in the Western world, Islamophobia now occupies the place that had for centuries been reserved for anti-Semitism. Islam has turned into a synonym for terrorism, it is seen as a religion of blood and murder. Soon it will be revealed that Muslims slaughter Christian children and use their blood for baking Pitta. (In reality it is, of course, the religion of dozens of vastly different peoples, from Indonesia to Morocco and from Kosova to Zanzibar.

The US does not fear Moscow as it fears Beijing. Unlike China, Russia does not look like a country that could dominate the 21st century. The West has no interest in renewing the Cold War, as it has in renewing the Crusades against Islam. The poor Chechnyans, who have no charismatic leader or outstanding spokespersons, have been banished from the headlines. For all the world cares, Putin can hit them as much as he wants, kill thousands and obliterate whole towns.

That does not prevent Putin from supporting the demands of Abkhazia and South Ossetia for separation from Georgia, a country which infuriates Russia.

* * *

IF IMMANUEL KANT knew what's going on in Kosova, he would be scratching his head.

The province demanded its independence from Serbia, and I, for one, supported that with all my heart. This is a separate people, with a different culture (Albanian) and its own religion (Islam). After the popular Serbian leader, Slobodan Milosevic, tried to drive them out of their country, the world rose and provided moral and material support for their struggle for independence.

The Albanian Kosovars make up 90% of the citizens of the new state, which has a population of two million. The other 10% are Serbs, who want no part of the new Kosova. They want the areas they live in to be annexed to Serbia. According to Kant's maxim, are they entitled to this?

I would propose a pragmatic moral principle: Every population that inhabits a defined territory and has a clear national character is entitled to independence. A state that wants to keep such a population must see to it that they feel comfortable, that they receive their full rights, enjoy equality and have an autonomy that satisfies their aspirations. In short: that they have no reason to desire separation.

That applies to the French in Canada, the Scots in Britain, the Kurds in Turkey and elsewhere, the various ethnic groups in Africa, the indigenous peoples in Latin America, the Tamils in Sri Lanka and many others. Each has a right to choose between full equality, autonomy and independence.

* * *

THIS LEADS us, of course, to the Palestinian issue.

In the competition for the sympathy of the world media, the Palestinians are unlucky. According to all the objective standards, they have a right to full independence, exactly like the Tibetans. They inhabit a defined territory, they are a specific nation, a clear border exists between them and Israel. One must really have a crooked mind to deny these facts.

But the Palestinians are suffering from several cruel strokes of fate: The people that oppress them claim for themselves the crown of ultimate victimhood. The whole world sympathizes with the Israelis because the Jews were the victims of the most horrific crime of the Western world. That creates a strange situation: the oppressor is more popular than the victim. Anyone who supports the Palestinians is automatically suspected of anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial.

Also, the great majority of the Palestinians are Muslims (nobody pays attention to the Palestinian Christians). Since Islam arouses fear and abhorrence in the West, the Palestinian struggle has automatically become a part of that shapeless, sinister threat, "international terrorism". And since the murders of Yasser Arafat and Sheik Ahmed Yassin, the Palestinians have no particularly impressive leader - neither in Fatah nor in Hamas.

The world media are shedding tears for the Tibetan people, whose land is taken from them by Chinese settlers. Who cares about the Palestinians, whose land is taken from them by our settlers?

In the world-wide tumult about Tibet, the Israeli spokespersons compare themselves - strange as it sounds - to the poor Tibetans, not to the evil Chinese. Many think this quite logical.

If Kant were dug up tomorrow and asked about the Palestinians, he would probably answer: "Give them what you think should be given to everybody, and don't wake me up again to ask silly questions."

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is o a contributor to CounterPunch's book The Politics of Anti-Semitism.


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Europe

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #332 on: May 18, 2008, 02:32:09 AM »

The Chinese empire has ruled the region Tibet for longer than the U.S.A. has existed, so you americans should shut up or return to the Europe you came from, handing the land back to the native indians. The Tibet issue is chinese internal affairs and ignorant americans should keep out of these.

Of course, we think Americans are dumb assholes in Europe, but we need cheap labour to compete with the chinese so we might take you back anyhows.


« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 02:46:05 AM by Europe »	Logged

Jericoacoara

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #333 on: May 18, 2008, 04:21:47 AM »

Quote from: Europe on May 18, 2008, 02:32:09 AM

You obvious carry animosity towards all americans for some reason or other Roll Eyes

Anyway IMO, your observations regarding americans have no relevance to the issue of Tibet and China.

As can be seen below, The Europeans are just as opiniated as the americans regarding this issue

Quote

London, May 17 - More Europeans do not want their leaders to attend the opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympic Games than do, with the strongest opposition coming from France and Germany, according to an opinion poll carried out for the Financial Times.

The Financial Times/Harris poll shows that 54 per cent of French people and 55 per cent of Germans oppose their leaders going to the opening on August. 8. Support for attendance in both countries runs at a little less than 30 per cent.

Opposition is strong in Italy, where 48 per cent oppose attendance and 32 per cent support it, and in Britain, where 43 per cent oppose and 25 per cent favour Gordon Brown's presence. The view is more balanced in Spain, where 39 per cent oppose and 35 per cent favour José Luis Zapatero going. In Japan, 45 per cent oppose the attendance of Yasuo Fukuda, the prime minister, 10 percentage points more than favour it.

The opinions appear correlated with knowledge about recent protests against China's rule over Tibet.

In France, 84 per cent of people said they had heard a lot about the protests, while 16 per cent had heard a little. In Germany, 51 per cent had heard a lot and 44 per cent a little. In China, 46 per cent of people had heard a lot about the protests and 50 per cent a little.

According to the poll, a majority of Europeans believes Tibet should not be under Chinese rule, ranging from 53 per cent in Britain to about three-quarters in Germany and Italy. Sixty-nine per cent of Japanese thought Tibet should not be governed by China.

http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?article=Europe+against+leaders'+presence+at+opening+of+Beijing+games&id=21259


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The greatest tragedy is for a person to die with the music still within them.

Ahkenaten

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #334 on: May 18, 2008, 07:09:50 AM »

Quote

^^ More talking point propaganda. The first line is a straight out lie and the rest is some gibberish that sounds like it came from someone with a mental disability.

The Native Indians must be a circulated talking point people just regurgitate without thinking about. Like all talking points they sound good at first but as soon as you start to examine it, it makes no relevant sense at all.

China has NOT been ruling Tibet longer than the US has existed -- Tibet is NOT an isolated hunter/gatherer society encountering a vast Euro one 3 centuries ago -- The American colonists did NOT kill a million Natives -- they did not imprison them by the thousands and they did not torture them either. They did not smash Aztec temples etc etc.

The analogy only works if you're completely ignorant of the history or were handed a talking point from your Mommy and Daddy.

China invaded Tibet in the '50's and has killed a million or more of them.

Quote

For about half a century now, Tibet has been used in the West at large as a touchstone to vet nearly everyone’s moral attitude.

No. Since the '50's China has occupied Tibet and treated the Tibetains the way the Japanese treated the Chinese during WWII. "The West" didn't like it when Japan was doing it either. No matter how many straight up lies or double speak you want to use that is the truth.

Jerico:
"As can be seen below, The Europeans are just as opiniated as the americans regarding this issue"

The talking-point propaganda brigade needs to keep us thinking it's only the US that has this opinion about China/Tibet.

Ahk


« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 07:13:06 AM by Ahkenaten »	Logged

Europe

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #335 on: May 18, 2008, 07:40:08 AM »

Quit with your propaganda - it may work on dumbass americans but not on thinking people. The Chinese hasn't killed a million Tibetans - there are more than twice the number of tibetans now as there were 1950. Which other countries has doubled their population in 50 years ? Not likely to happen if there is an ongoing genocide going on as some of the propagande states.

The UN map clearly shows that Tibet was part of china 1945
www.un.org/depts/Cartographic/map/profile/world45.pdf . As does all the other maps from the beginning of the century. Ergo, the chinese cannot have invaded their own land.

I would have thought americans would know what an invasion is - after all you have invaded more countries than any other nation.

And when it comes to the indians - I guess the native indians should be happy that you guys stole their land ?

Go back to school - do your homework - and maybe come out as a thinking person in the end..

Quote from: Ahkenaten on May 18, 2008, 07:09:50 AM

Quote

For about half a century now, Tibet has been used in the West at large as a touchstone to vet nearly everyone’s moral attitude.


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Ahkenaten

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #336 on: May 18, 2008, 02:17:48 PM »

Quote

And when it comes to the indians - I guess the native indians should be happy that you guys stole their land ?

Only a child completely ignorant of the history involved here would make the same comparison. This is just a talking point you are regurgitating from somewhere else. If you weren't a teenager and had any education into the matter you wouldn't be making this analogy. I suppose if the Chinese found North America 300 years ago they would've left it alone right? I bet you can't even explain what you mean by "taking their land" and how that happened historically.

Typical brainwashed double-speak. First you say Tibet was always China then and no one's stealing anything then you justify it by saying look at North America and what "they did to the Indians". Which is it? Doesn't matter though as I said any educated adult can see there is no comparison.

As to the map drawn in 1945 by "the UN" this is a hilarious mockery since you obviously are uneducated as to what happened 1944-1945.

Quote

Ergo, the chinese cannot have invaded their own land.

No you need to start educating yourself as to what happened during this time. Japan ruled over much China and Tibet from 1931-1945, after the war it was HANDED to China by Japanese dissolvement and Tibet won it's independence 4 years later in 1949. In all throughout the last century Tibet was "ruled" by mainland China for a total of 4 years during which they never cared about them.

So no pinhead...showing us a map from 1945 and saying "look, see?" is as idiotic and uneducated as the rest of your gibberish.

The ugly irony here of course is that you are using the end of WWII and the brutality of Japan's occupation to justify your claim to Tibet.

Quote

I would have thought americans would know what an invasion is - after all you have invaded more countries than any other nation.

i'm not an American but it's funny how you non-thinking sheep need to hide your head under the pillow and insist it's only Americans disgusted with China. It's a real weakness when all those official talking points that you don't understand are banking on the person you're talking to as being an American. You continue to refuse to look at reality and see that it's everyone.

Quote

Go back to school - do your homework - and maybe come out as a thinking person in the end..

Nope you're just a dumb regurgitator who is sitting there lying. Youre a teenager who got made a fool of the last time you were here and now you're just going to continue that trend.

Ahk


« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 02:27:51 PM by Ahkenaten »	Logged

Europe

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #337 on: May 18, 2008, 03:33:45 PM »

The argument on the indians only proves that americans are in no position to make moral judgment on the Chinese policy in Tibet, especially not when it comes to the treatment of the Tibetan minority in China. It has absolutely nothing to do with the ownership of Tibet.

I linked the map from 1945, but as I said in the previous post also the maps from before shows Tibet as part of China. I chose the map from 1945 because it was from the time closest to the alleged “invasion” in 1950.

In any case, that I prove that Tibet was not independent in 1945 hardly says that Tibet cannot have been independent before that - does it ?

Obviously your ramblings about Japan is only a desperate attempt at lying to prove your point – everyone knows (except perhaps uneducated Americans) knows that Japan had no influence in Tibet during WW2. Japan invaded other parts of China but only areas close to the coast.

Just to rub you a bit more in the mud of redicule, I’ll link a map from 1912 where Tibet is referred to as a Chinese territory. http://www.maps.com/map.aspx?nav=MS&cid=22,56,93,1617&pid=15885

Now your ramblings about Japan is of course absolute BS, but it would anyhow be interesting to hear about your theories about why the maps show Tibet as Chinese territory already 1912, if it was only as you say “handed to China” in 1944-45 ?

All your so-called arguments have been refuted above. I just didn’t figure out whether you are joking or really are brainless enough to think people will believe your BS.

Your lame attempts at escaping by calling me uneducated are totally laughable given how easily I destroyed your arguments. Btw. Are you American ?

By the way, a relatively accurate account on Tibetan history is available on wikipedia. Both the tibetan exile community view and the official chinese view are describe. Neither of them mention Japan Grin

- ROFL

And I just found this site the other day – I never had another ID on it. I just got a tip about that there was a lot of ignorant morons on the site. I am already having fun rediculing a few of them it seems  Grin

And last, a word of advice: Being rude does not make you right, so don't try that one again ...

Quote from: Ahkenaten on May 18, 2008, 02:17:48 PM

Quote

And when it comes to the indians - I guess the native indians should be happy that you guys stole their land ?

Quote

Ergo, the chinese cannot have invaded their own land.

Quote

I would have thought americans would know what an invasion is - after all you have invaded more countries than any other nation.

Quote

Go back to school - do your homework - and maybe come out as a thinking person in the end..

Nope you're just a dumb regurgitator who is sitting there lying. Youre a teenager who got made a fool of the last time you were here and now you're just going to continue that trend.

Ahk


« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 05:02:18 PM by Europe »	Logged

Ahkenaten

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #338 on: May 18, 2008, 05:13:56 PM »

<yawn>

No it's your ramblings about maps that is pathetic.

It's all here, read it yourself:

Your lame attempts at escaping by calling me uneducated are totally laughable given how easily I destroyed your arguments.

Quote

Your lame attempts at escaping by calling me uneducated are totally laughable given how easily I destroyed your arguments. Btw. Are you American ?

You didnt do anything but show us incorrect maps. Considering I just finished telling you I'm not an American and pointed out your childish compulsive need to believe everyone is your ability to read is in question.

Quote

By the way, a relatively accurate account on Tibetan history is available on wikipedia.

yes I know. lol!

Quote

Being rude does not make you right, so don't try that one again ...

Uh, kiss my ass? You're the one that can't write a single post without your juvenile mouthing off.

Ahk


« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 05:17:43 PM by Ahkenaten »	Logged

Biker Dude

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Re: TIBET

« Reply #339 on: May 18, 2008, 05:19:04 PM »

Quote from: Europe on May 18, 2008, 03:33:45 PM

And last, a word of advice: Being rude does not make you right, so don't try that one again ...

You use 'destroyed' in your post. I do not think this word means what you think it means. Evidently your reading skills are as good as your vocabulary...

Quote from: Ahkenaten on May 18, 2008, 02:17:48 PM

i'm not an American but it's funny how you non-thinking sheep need to hide your head under the pillow and insist it's only Americans disgusted with China.


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Who will watch the watchers?

Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about?

Europe

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Karma: +0/-33
Posts: 131

Re: TIBET

« Reply #340 on: May 18, 2008, 05:28:31 PM »

Quote from: Ahkenaten on May 18, 2008, 05:13:56 PM

Quote

Your lame attempts at escaping by calling me uneducated are totally laughable given how easily I destroyed your arguments. Btw. Are you American ?

Quote

By the way, a relatively accurate account on Tibetan history is available on wikipedia.

yes I know. lol!

Quote

Being rude does not make you right, so don't try that one again ...

Uh, kiss my ass? You're the one that can't write a single post without your juvenile mouthing off.

Ahk

When are you going to let us on the details of your theory on the Japanese connection to Tibetan independence ? - rofl Grin

You just got owned sucker ....

And btw. Canadians technically are americans :.)


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Ahkenaten

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Professor of Angular Mil and Applied Narcotics

Re: TIBET

« Reply #341 on: May 18, 2008, 05:36:13 PM »

Quote

Canadians technically are americans :.)

You're lack of education is showing again. Your childish teenager need to insult instead of talk is showing as well. Shall we show all the polls of Europeans with the same opinion? Do you need to pretend it's only Americans opposed to this? I think you do.

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When are you going to let us on the details of your theory on the Japanese connection to Tibetan independence ? - rofl

The Connection is that Chinese access to Tibet was checked until Japanese lost the war idiot. This effectively opened the door for them.

Quote

You just got owned sucker ....

Tryng to sound smart is not as effective as being smart. If i needed any smart comeback from you I'd just wipe it of your chin, right kid?

Ahk


« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 05:37:57 PM by Ahkenaten »	Logged

Europe

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Karma: +0/-33
Posts: 131

Re: TIBET

« Reply #342 on: May 18, 2008, 06:29:21 PM »

You need to read up on chinese history, clearly you don't have a clue.

The Tibetans first tried to declare independence in 1912 or so but the Chinese refused.
The chinese then overthrew the theocratic feudal lords they had given rights to limited
autonomy in 1950 and installed the local government in their place.

No country recognizes or has recognized Tibet as a formally sovereign state.

You are clearly lying or ignorant if you claim otherwise.

Owned again lol ...

Quote from: Ahkenaten on May 18, 2008, 05:36:13 PM

Quote

Canadians technically are americans :.)

Quote

When are you going to let us on the details of your theory on the Japanese connection to Tibetan independence ? - rofl

The Connection is that Chinese access to Tibet was checked until Japanese lost the war idiot. This effectively opened the door for them.

Quote

You just got owned sucker ....

Tryng to sound smart is not as effective as being smart. If i needed any smart comeback from you I'd just wipe it of your chin, right kid?

Ahk


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bio

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Karma: +0/-2
Posts: 8

Re: TIBET

« Reply #343 on: May 18, 2008, 11:56:24 PM »

Quote from: Europe on May 18, 2008, 02:32:09 AM

Confused... Well, in fact it is Europe that presses China on this issue, not US. Almost all European leaders announced one by one they will not attend opening ceremony. That's probably why Chinese boycotting French businesses. And in contrast G.Bush will attend opening ceremony. This is for the first time in history of US. They never attending Olympic ceremonies beyond US.


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