Don't know about the people here but the former Prime Minister of Israel Ehud Barak once admitted, had he been born a Palestinian, he “would have joined a terrorist organization" (Bill Maxwell, “U.S. Should Reconsider Aid to Israel,” St. Petersburg Times, December 16, 2001. cited in the source linked to in the previous post).

I'm sure I'm the ONLY ONE who noticed you didn't answer to ANY of the facts or factually wrong implications your "exercise" made... Without those "assumptions" (which you apparently prefer not to even attempt to factually backup)... where would your argument be after all...right??

Thanks for making my point Callum 

What you claim to be facts are actually a collection of half truths, stretches and outright fallacies. The very fact that the British made conflicting, and mutually exclusive promises to Arabs and Jews just before and during WWI makes the issue the mess it is.

By the way I am not a radical, but I can see clearly that you are a zionist.....

Honestly, Callum, I think that if such a situation were to happen, Florida would likely rebel against U.N. enforcement. I think that the former state of Florida would have support from a few of the southern former States, as well, if they had the means, because whether the union dissolved into (at least temporarily) independent states or multi-state confederations, the Americans near Florida would rather see Florida in the hands of Americans. I could be way off, because smaller variables have significant influence, but that's what I project would happen.

As for a personal reaction, it would depend on the political situation that surrounded the scenario. I'm not particularly patriotic or easily motivated to fight, but if I had a reason to stay or no way to leave, I would certainly defend my home. As would any other human being facing the same situation.

The exercise is well constructed in that respect (I'll agree with realityman only on the point that insofar as being specific to the palestinian-israeli conflict, there are some inaccuracies, but that's beside the point of the exercise and the one I'm making); If you were displaced by law or by force, what would you do?


Realityman, you refer to the "Palestinian people" in quotes, and assert that the Palestinians are not a people; explain to me, please: how ca a non-people can have a culture - especially one so CAPS worthy as that of the Palestinians?

Do you think that the people now referred to as Palestinian (whatever the past usages of the word) are well treated by their Israeli occupiers?

OswaldTheOsprey

Well let's start with the mandate:

The preamble states:

"Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers(This is the Balfour decleration), in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,......."

The Balfour decleration in turn states:

"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

The same point is reiterated time and time again by the British in the McMahon Hussein correspondences too.

Back to the mandate

Article 2 states:
"The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion."

Article 7:
The Administration of Palestine shall be responsible for enacting a nationality law. There shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

Article 9:

Respect for the personal status of the various peoples and communities and for their religious interests shall be fully guaranteed. In particular, the control and administration of Wakfs shall be exercised in accordance with religious law and the dispositions of the founders.

Article 15:
The Mandatory shall see that complete freedom of conscience and the free exercise of all forms of worship, subject only to the maintenance of public order and morals, are ensured to all. No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants of Palestine on the ground of race, religion or language. No person shall be excluded from Palestine on the sole ground of his religious belief.

The right of each community to maintain its own schools for the education of its own members in its own language, while conforming to such educational requirements of a general nature as the Administration may impose, shall not be denied or impaired.


Article 22:
English, Arabic and Hebrew shall be the official languages of Palestine. Any statement or inscription in Arabic on stamps or money in Palestine shall be repeated in Hebrew and any statement or inscription in Hebrew shall be repeated in Arabic.


As can be seen from the mandate the mandate itself does not in any way, shape or form state, mean or imply a Jewsish state west of the River Jordan that is to be exclusive to the Jews. What it does state, mean and imply is a state made up of two different ethnic entities with equal rights and protections. Where the Jewish right to exist is guaranteed and where land can be appropriated for Jewish use in accord with the mandate (ie. uncontested public land, wastelands and land purchased from rightful owners). It also implies that the state of Palestine (which the mandate is given for it's establishment) should be the guarantor of rights and freedoms of all people living within its borders. Therefore it can be summarized that the Mandate given by the Leauge of Nations was not given for the establishment of the Jewish state, rather for the establishment of a Palestinian state where Jews have their national home, along side the Arabs of Palestine (or Palestinians).

Attempting to base the dejure legality of the state of Israel on the mandate is not really a wise idea, the mandate has no such provision.......


I will get back to your other points when I have more time.....

calllum, you can't rule anything, let alone someone from this so called thread that didn't go the way you wanted. Surprise, surprise! 

What an asshole. Have any more false pretenses, failure to address another's points, anything of value?