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Author Topic: 35 Firms OK'd to Bid on Iraq Oil Deals  (Read 1007 times)
Ron Mars
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« Reply #90 on: May 14, 2008, 04:12:48 PM »

And how much money has he given to oil companies in the form of subsidies and tax breaks?

In 2005 alone he gave oil companies $4.3 billion in tax incetives.

It was meant for hydrogen research. From what I can remember most was going to Universities and private companies as research grants. I'll bet your University has engineering projects designed around using hydrogen engine research.

I went on the link and found the $4.3 Billion quote. The American Progress lists the NYT as their source. Problem is the NYT never states "$4.3 Billion" in their story. The article states:
"Meanwhile, both houses conspired in some spectacular giveaways. One would ease environmental restrictions on oil and gas companies drilling on public lands. The other would shower billions in undeserved tax breaks on the same companies..."

Oil companies definitely did get some kind of tax breaks which I agree sounds rather silly right about now. I would need to know what the tax breaks were for or designed to do. Usually they are designed to increase economic activity. If that was the case then the tax breaks failed miserably.

There were some interesting bits in the NYT article however:

"the tax provisions are far more hospitable to energy efficiency and renewable fuels than earlier versions of the bill, and include substantial incentives for buyers of fuel-efficient hybrid cars.

More important in the long run, however, may be two provisions, buried deep in the bill, that are aimed at developing new energy technologies. One provision would encourage the development and commercial application of biofuels from agricultural products that, much like corn-based ethanol, might someday be used as a substitute for gasoline. The other provision is aimed at developing new clean-coal technologies to turn coal into a gas and, more important, capture emissions of carbon dioxide, a major contributor to global warming.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #91 on: May 14, 2008, 05:16:40 PM »

It was meant for hydrogen research. From what I can remember most was going to Universities and private companies as research grants.

Did you read the other parts?


- Bush’s Fiscal Year 2006 budget proposes “$354 million for the Department of Energy’s (DOE) renewable energy programs—a 5.6 percent reduction from the proposed 2005 budget…The overall decrease in DOE renewable energy funding…reflects a reduction in spending on other renewable technologies such as solar, geothermal, and bioenergy.” Union of Concerned Scientists, February 22, 2005.

- “Research and development funding for geothermal and hydropower has been eliminated [in Bush’s FY2007 budget]. The FY07 budget request for research and development for wind…is a $930,000 (2 percent) cut from last year’s request. … The 2007 budget also proposes cutting almost two-thirds of the $23 million designated for renewable energy and energy efficiency programs in the 2002 Farm Bill.” Union of Concerned Scientists, February 13, 2006.

- President Bush’s Fiscal Year 2008 budget proposes to cut research funds for wind, eliminate them for geothermal energy, and leave funding for solar stagnant. U.S. Department of Energy, February 5, 2007.

- President Bush threatens to veto the Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act (H.R. 2776), which includes tax incentives for producers and homeowners to employ renewable energy technologies, and the New Direction for Energy Independence, National Security, and Consumer Protection Act (H.R. 3221), which includes a 15 percent renewable electricity standard. Statement of Administration Policy, August 3, 2007.

- President Bush threatens to veto the Energy Independence and Security Act because it includes a renewable electricity standard and renewable energy tax credits funded by the elimination of several tax breaks for big oil companies. Statement of Administration Policy, December 7, 2007.


Sounds like he's against research AND incentives for private implementation of this technology...

Quote from: Ron Mars
I went on the link and found the $4.3 Billion quote. The American Progress lists the NYT as their source. Problem is the NYT never states "$4.3 Billion" in their story. The article states:

"Meanwhile, both houses conspired in some spectacular giveaways. One would ease environmental restrictions on oil and gas companies drilling on public lands. The other would shower billions in undeserved tax breaks on the same companies..."

Oil companies definitely did get some kind of tax breaks which I agree sounds rather silly right about now. I would need to know what the tax breaks were for or designed to do. Usually they are designed to increase economic activity. If that was the case then the tax breaks failed miserably.

There were some interesting bits in the NYT article however:

"the tax provisions are far more hospitable to energy efficiency and renewable fuels than earlier versions of the bill, and include substantial incentives for buyers of fuel-efficient hybrid cars.

More important in the long run, however, may be two provisions, buried deep in the bill, that are aimed at developing new energy technologies. One provision would encourage the development and commercial application of biofuels from agricultural products that, much like corn-based ethanol, might someday be used as a substitute for gasoline. The other provision is aimed at developing new clean-coal technologies to turn coal into a gas and, more important, capture emissions of carbon dioxide, a major contributor to global warming.

Well I hope everyone comes to their senses and realizes just how disasterous ethanol production (at preasent) is to the cost of both oil AND food. The latter is already an expensive commodity in 3rd World countries... but we only care when the former becomes too expensive for us.

As for the tax breaks, it's not so much what they cost, but who they went to. Why are we giving them to oil companies? They have no incentive in developing that technology, so why pretend like they're our only source?

There are others we can tap.

Quote from: Ron Mars
I'll bet your University has engineering projects designed around using hydrogen engine research.

Nah. We're too specialized and lack a lot of advanced equipment.

I know one professor is doing research on balast-less ships, which not only improves the fuel economy of preasent hulls but ALSO saves local ecosystems from foreign pathogens that usually get carried and discharged from the standard balasts.

He has to do it off campus in Michigan because we even lack equipment necessary for contemporary naval engineering research... AND WE'RE A NAVAL ENGINEERING COLLEGE! The school is too busy paying for a football team that couldn't win in the high school league Roll Eyes .
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« Reply #92 on: May 15, 2008, 07:58:54 AM »

 WOW!  Shocked Its as though the Bush Cheney D.O.E. renewable energy research budgets were written by a couple of oilmen!...What a shocking surprise! Shocked Shocked Shocked
« Last Edit: May 15, 2008, 08:52:40 AM by freethinker » Logged

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Ron Mars
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« Reply #93 on: May 15, 2008, 03:14:48 PM »

I posted a response Abraxas but it was flaggad for spam. That's twice now and I have no idea why.

I copied it so if the post doesn't show up I'll resend it. Maybe it's because I linked a White House website about the 2007 DOE budget.
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Ron Mars
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« Reply #94 on: May 15, 2008, 03:32:19 PM »

Its as though the Bush Cheney D.O.E. renewable energy research budgets were written by a couple of oilmen!...What a shocking surprise

There are numerous alternative energy programs and projects within Bush's DOE budget, at least for FY 2007.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #95 on: May 16, 2008, 08:46:18 AM »

Here's your response to my post, Ron Mars.

Well I hope everyone comes to their senses and realizes just how disasterous ethanol production (at preasent) is to the cost of both oil AND food. The latter is already an expensive commodity in 3rd World countries... but we only care when the former becomes too expensive for us.

As for the tax breaks, it's not so much what they cost, but who they went to. Why are we giving them to oil companies? They have no incentive in developing that technology, so why pretend like they're our only source.

There are others we can tap.

Excellent points. IMO we should be using the farm land here in the US to grow crops specifically for ethanol production while maintaining or increasing agricultural production for food as well. Farm policies in this counrty have never mades sense to me since I started following politics.

The school is too busy paying for a football team that couldn't win in the high school league Roll Eyes .

ODU didn't even have a football team I could go and at least watch loose. But I tried to look at the bright side. As far as I'm concerned, the ODU football team went unbeaten and untied while I attended. We never lost a game.

Did you read the other parts?

Yes I did. Once I confirmed that the American Progress misrepresented the NYT article I did keep reading but took what I read from then on with a grain of salt. The NYT's article didn't even put a number on the tax break. It leaves me wondering where the American Progress found that number.

They may have some other figures correct no doubt, but I absolutely doubt their explanation of what the measures in Bush's Energy plan were designed to do. Energy has always been an important issue for me.

To be fair to American Progress, because I'm not familiar with them, I found the President's DOE budget for FY2007. I don't give Bush high marks on his energy policies, but the American Progress failed to inform it's readers of what's in it. It's loaded with billions for new energy research. It even removes R&D funds for oil and gas exploration on the grounds the oil companies can do it themselves. The AP failed to inform it's readers of that little fact.

"Sounds like he's against research AND incentives for private implementation of this technology..."  Not to me it doesn't.

"The 2007 Budget proposes $4.1 billion for DOE’s Office of Science—a $505 million increase over 2006 funding. These additional funds, which represent the first installment of a 10-year doubling plan under the American Competitiveness Initiative, will be focused on the areas of research most likely to sustain and enhance U.S. economic competitiveness."

Advancing Nuclear Power Development
"Nuclear power offers an emissions-free, safe, and reliable source of energy and is an essential element in the Nation’s energy mix. Recognizing these benefits, the President’s National Energy Policy emphasized appropriate development of nuclear energy systems. The 2007 Budget continues strong support for nuclear power in several areas.

Solar and Bio-Fuels Initiatives
"The Bio-Fuels Initiative will help displace future demand for oil by increasing funding to develop affordable, domestically produced bio-based transportation fuels (ethanol and biodiesel) and other products largely derived from oil today.

The initiative aims to accelerate research to reduce the cost of PV technologies through industry-led partnerships...the initiative could result in 5–10 gigawatts of PV electrical capacity by 2015, compared with less than one gigawatt today. The increased capacity would be enough to power roughly one million homes. The increased use of solar PV also could significantly reduce demand for natural gas in the power sector.

Demonstrating the Future of Coal
"The 2007 Budget provides $54 million toward design and construction of the project, while providing an additional $268 million for R&D on technologies that will be used in FutureGen and similar next generation coal-fueled power plants, including fuel cells, turbines, coal gasification, carbon sequestration, and hydrogen separation. Funding in the 2007 Budget nearly completes the President’s 2000 campaign commitment to provide $2 billion over 10 years for clean coal technology research, four years ahead of schedule."

Terminating Federal Support for Oil and Gas R&D
"The 2007 Budget proposes to terminate DOE’s Oil and Gas R&D programs, as in the 2006 Budget, because these R&D activities are more appropriate for the private sector...The 2007 Budget also recommends repealing provisions in the Energy Policy Act of 2005 for a new mandatory $50 million per year (2007–2017) oil and gas R&D program funded with Federal revenues from oil and gas leases...Industry has the incentives and resources to do such R&D on its own."

Refocusing the Clean Coal Power Initiative
"The Clean Coal Power Initiative (CCPI) has had difficulty implementing demonstration projects that achieve the best results for the American taxpayer. As identified in the PART review, CCPI projects have a history of significant delays, which has slowed the use of funds and created a backlog of over $500 million in unused balances... The 2007 Budget restricts the addition of new funds to CCPI, while DOE works to improve the use of existing funds."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2007/energy.html

But I don't know if I have time to get to it today.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2008, 08:48:27 AM by Abraxas » Logged

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« Reply #96 on: May 16, 2008, 09:22:28 AM »

I posted a response Abraxas but it was flaggad for spam. That's twice now and I have no idea why.

Maybe the forum has installed a lie filter Ron Mars.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #97 on: June 18, 2008, 07:49:12 PM »

This should end the "Bush's War For Oil" screech...

... and THIS should start it up again:

Quote from: Herald Tribune
Deals with Iraq are set to bring oil giants back

BAGHDAD: Four Western oil companies are in the final stages of negotiations this month on contracts that will return them to Iraq, 36 years after losing their oil concession to nationalization as Saddam Hussein rose to power.

Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP — the original partners in the Iraq Petroleum Company — along with Chevron and a number of smaller oil companies, are in talks with Iraq's Oil Ministry for no-bid contracts to service Iraq's largest fields, according to ministry officials, oil company officials and an American diplomat.

...

The no-bid contracts are unusual for the industry, and the offers prevailed over others by more than 40 companies, including companies in Russia, China and India. The contracts, which would run for one to two years and are relatively small by industry standards, would nonetheless give the companies an advantage in bidding on future contracts in a country that many experts consider to be the best hope for a large-scale increase in oil production.

I guess I was right all along:

I think the more compelling argument would be who these contracts go to in the end... not who gets a chance to bid on them.

... [D]on't you think who gets the contracts may be a slight indication of who controls it? I mean, if it all goes to China and Russia, what good did the war do? If it all goes to American companies, well, then, it might be whorth looking into.





No bid contracts going to American oil companies?

Who'd a thunk it?

/sarcasm
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky

... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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