IAP Political Forum
January 07, 2009, 11:04:38 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Support IAP -- join "High Society" with less fuss. Click "paid subscriptions" from your profile.
 
   Home   Blog Forum   Help Search Chat Login Register  
Digg This!
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Big One...  (Read 1494 times)
tadpol
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +27/-19
Posts: 291



View Profile
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 04:08:10 PM »

Dormouse I have trouble reading your post, there are many very interesting sentences but what does it mean? You cast doubt of the existence of truth, you deny middle ground between god's existence and non-existence. You count philosophy as primarily concerned with truth, you say it only a love of wisdom. You say one cannot seriously consider philosophy while holding a religion (Jesuits excepted), you say god was on the mind of many bright names. Any help understanding would be appreciated.

I think of a discussion on the existence of god in much the same light as natural disasters. If a flood is coming it is nice to convince people to evacuate, but if none is coming it is nice to talk them out of evacuating.
Logged
Dormouse
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +22/-47
Posts: 323


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2008, 04:58:59 AM »

Dormouse I have trouble reading your post, there are many very interesting sentences but what does it mean?
I was trying (unsuccessfully) to explain why the question of God's existence isn't really an important issue in philosophy.

As I previously noted, one cannot prove or disprove the existence or non-existence of God.  This is categorical.  Ergo, the question of God's existence is essentially moot from the perspective of philosophy.

Quote from: tadpol
You cast doubt of the existence of truth, you deny middle ground between god's existence and non-existence. You count philosophy as primarily concerned with truth, you say it only a love of wisdom.
Yes, philosophy is love of wisdom, not a search for truth.

The search for truth is essentially a search for religion.

And the definition of 'truth' is entirely religious since there is no basis for 'truth' existing beyond God's will.  This is a key issue of epistemology. 

Quote from: tadpol
You say one cannot seriously consider philosophy while holding a religion (Jesuits excepted), you say god was on the mind of many bright names. Any help understanding would be appreciated.
I didn't say that one cannot hold a religion and be a serious student of philosophy, only that this is particularlly challenging and difficult given the fact that having a 'strong religious view' means one already has chosen and is devoted to a particular and specific philosophy and that all other philosophical interpretations are wrong by definition. 

Thus, most students (and professors) of philosophy in our modern world are 'non-religious' as either atheists or deists.  Many religious types who do enter philosophy tend to see this as a conspiracy against their religion.  I've seen this point made many, many times (usually made as an accusation of anti-religious conspiracy).

Quote from: tadpol
I think of a discussion on the existence of god in much the same light as natural disasters. If a flood is coming it is nice to convince people to evacuate, but if none is coming it is nice to talk them out of evacuating.
You are perhaps assuming that the question of God's existence is a valid one that can be answered.

Certainly if the question could be answered, then the question would be an important one, but since no answer is philosophically valid, the question becomes unimportant - it is just a matter of personal and subjective opinon, one way or the other.  Some people find that interesting - but its not really philosophy.

I hope this clears up your questions.  I was attempting to make several different arguments in my earlier post.

As a final point on this issue, I'd say that the real philosophical question that is most closely related to the question of God's existence is the question of epistemology - what is truth?  That question certainly is a valid philosophical concern and any answer to that question tends to define the God-question.  I of course have already stated that I fall on the relativist side of all questions of epistemology (as do almost all modern philosophers).


« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 05:00:34 AM by Dormouse » Logged

IamMe
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +40/-140
Posts: 1,357



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2008, 12:13:06 PM »

Wow! Of all the things that could have appeared as an answer to my OP, I never expected a discussion as to whether or not the question of God's existence is worth discussing.

Dormouse: your position seems to be that because a definite answer to the question of God's existence is impossible (a statement that itself needs support) then it is of no interest to a philosopher. This is quite an odd position (I may be over-simplifying your position). Things aren't that black and white. We may not be able to come to a definitive conclusion but we can certainly come to conclusions about the probability of God's existence. Philosopher's discuss those kinds of questions all the time.

Quote
If you are a believer, than you are a sinner by even trying to question his existence.

Well, only if you hold the most ridiculous of fundamentalist beliefs.Any reasonable theist/deist is will to admit that they might be wrong and engage in discussion.

Quote
If you are a non-believer it makes no sense to even start the conversation.

This one really makes no sense to me. Most people have some sort of belief in God(s) and this affects almost every aspect of human existence. Strong belief in Allah has caused rampant human rights abuses in the Muslim world; religious beliefs muddy the waters in many crucial debates like abortion, IVF, stem-cells - all of which are issues that affect non-believers; belief in God caused 9/11.
Logged

\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell

If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
Factinista
Full Member
***

Karma: +17/-35
Posts: 228


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2008, 03:19:45 PM »

If anything the question of God's existince is the MOST important. Nearly all questions of metaphysics and morality stem from this. If God exists in some form then he dictates "truth", if not then truth must be approached in other ways. God is THE fundamental question
Logged
tadpol
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +27/-19
Posts: 291



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2008, 05:58:26 PM »

During discussions on the existence of god coverts and atheists have presumably been made. I'd suggest this is enough reason to discuss Him. That I have never heard of a strict logical proof for the (non) existence of god is a poor proof of the impossibility of such a proof. If you have a better one I'd be interested in reading it.
Logged
Dormouse
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +22/-47
Posts: 323


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2008, 05:14:50 AM »

During discussions on the existence of god coverts and atheists have presumably been made. I'd suggest this is enough reason to discuss Him.
Precisely why I said the topic is of interest primarily to partisans.





Logged

Factinista
Full Member
***

Karma: +17/-35
Posts: 228


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2008, 06:02:26 AM »

During discussions on the existence of god coverts and atheists have presumably been made. I'd suggest this is enough reason to discuss Him.
Precisely why I said the topic is of interest primarily to partisans.







well in case you missed it, partisans run the world
Logged
Dormouse
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +22/-47
Posts: 323


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2008, 06:55:12 AM »


well in case you missed it, partisans run the world

I don't doubt that at all.

My only objection is against pretending that such partisanship consititutes 'philosophy'.

Logged

tadpol
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +27/-19
Posts: 291



View Profile
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2008, 02:50:36 PM »

I'm not sure how preaching agnosticism is any different than selling (the lack of) god.
Logged
Dormouse
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +22/-47
Posts: 323


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2008, 06:19:15 PM »

I'm not sure how preaching agnosticism is any different than selling (the lack of) god.
I'm certainly not preaching God, agnosticism or atheism.  That's a religous game, I'm into philosophy.  That's a different game.

Logged

IamMe
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +40/-140
Posts: 1,357



View Profile
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2008, 01:00:40 PM »

During discussions on the existence of god coverts and atheists have presumably been made. I'd suggest this is enough reason to discuss Him.
Precisely why I said the topic is of interest primarily to partisans.

It is of interest to anyone with an open mind and an interest in metaphysics.

Logged

\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell

If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
Pages: 1 [2]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.5 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines LLC
Joomla Bridge by JoomlaHacks.com
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.103 seconds with 26 queries.