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Author Topic: Obama to declare victory May 20  (Read 824 times)
Patton
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2008, 04:36:14 PM »

A "conservative" is not generally a "moderate"....whereas a Republican can be.....
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2008, 05:50:57 AM »

 By definition a conservative is one who wishes to conserve... the constitution, the environment, public education, public protections, civil rights, democracy...etc. 
 The republicon party now mostly wishes to erode, challenge, change or do away with all these things in the name of the free market and the economic growth of big business. In recent history to be a republicon is to be a radical, the polar opposite of conservative. IMO republicons of late could better be described as free market anarchists. The only thing they truly want to "conserve" are their profit margins.
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Factinista
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2008, 06:12:59 AM »

By definition a conservative is one who wishes to conserve... the constitution, the environment, public education, public protections, civil rights, democracy...etc. 
 The republicon party now mostly wishes to erode, challenge, change or do away with all these things in the name of the free market and the economic growth of big business. In recent history to be a republicon is to be a radical, the polar opposite of conservative. IMO republicons of late could better be described as free market anarchists. The only thing they truly want to "conserve" are their profit margins.

that just about sums it up Smiley
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neue regel
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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2008, 06:24:28 AM »

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By definition a conservative is one who wishes to conserve... the constitution, the environment, public education, public protections, civil rights, democracy...etc.
 The republicon party now mostly wishes to erode, challenge, change or do away with all these things in the name of the free market and the economic growth of big business. In recent history to be a republicon is to be a radical, the polar opposite of conservative. IMO republicons of late could better be described as free market anarchists. The only thing they truly want to "conserve" are their profit margins.

Cite examples, please, of big business making an effort to do away with civil rights for 'profit margins.' How about democracy? Public protections?
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freethinker
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2008, 07:26:39 AM »

Cite examples, please, of big business making an effort to do away with civil rights for 'profit margins.' How about democracy? Public protections?
Sigh ... too easy new rule. The immunity for telecoms bill recently narrowly defeated, in a vote largely along party lines, conveniently hits all three you asked for.
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neue regel
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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2008, 07:30:12 AM »

How did that help their 'profit margin?'

Your words, not mine...
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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2008, 07:45:53 AM »

 I really didn't expect you to understand this NR ... If a corperation is sued or found guilty of breaking laws of privacey or constitutional protections out of what column would the award or fine be paid??
 Clearly this legislation was designed to protect their money.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 07:48:18 AM by freethinker » Logged

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neue regel
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« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2008, 07:55:21 AM »

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Clearly this legislation was designed to protect their money.

Yes. And WTC 7 was 'clearly' a demolition, or so we're told. 'Clearly' is used when real evidence is absent.

Were you as concerned with violations of civil rights, democracy, and constitutional protections when 900 FBI files illegally ended up in the White House in the 90s? How about IRS audits of those unfriendly of the Clinton administration which is a clear abuse of power?

Can you produce ANYONE who had rights violated by the telecommunication industry? I've about had it with this 'loose change' approach to connecting the dots.
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freethinker
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2008, 08:23:20 AM »

 Some lovely misdirection and strawman argument there Mr. New Rule.
  Well what would the legislation make them immune to, if not monetary suit awards or fines? Does that not protect their profit while giving them permission to disregard  the law? It certainly wouldn't give them immunity to negative public opinion as they play ball with big brother in defying the constitution. The dots connect themselves as the constitution is pushed aside and corperate money is protected simultaneously.  Any time a select group is given immunity to the constitutional restrictions all others are subject to, EVERY Americans rights are violated. This is a matter of principals, there is no need to cite examples. Frankly the American people have about had it with this " you must give up your rights and freedoms to be safe" crap.
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neue regel
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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2008, 08:32:30 AM »

Have there been lawsuits alleging rights violations with dollar amounts made public? What does the communication companies stand to lose financially?
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« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2008, 09:31:26 AM »

 You should ask those who proposed the immunity legislation that question neue. Judging by how pissed off junior was there was a lot on the line. They had to have something in mind when this very unusual immunity legislation was put before congress. The very worst part about this is, the top secret, covert nature of the operations. Who knows what this administration could, or would or have already done with private communications intercepted without the knowledge of either party. They have already demonstrated how they will use any power they have for partisan political advantage without restraint or conscience. The proposed immunity was to be retroactive so one can only surmise that some pretty nasty things have already been done, and they want to cover the ass of their conspiratorial sources.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 09:40:32 AM by freethinker » Logged

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neue regel
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« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2008, 09:57:29 AM »

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You should ask those who proposed the immunity legislation that question neue.

I appreciate your willingness to admit you don't know.

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They have already demonstrated how they will use any power they have for partisan political advantage without restraint or conscience.


Do you have any evidence to back this up? Has Bush used the IRS to intimidate? Has he used the secret service, private investigators, the FBI to shake down Murtha, Kerry, Kucinich, Michael Moore, Alec Baldwin, Charlie Scheen, Cindy Sheehan? Has Air American been audited? Keith Olberman? The NYTs. The Washington Post, the Seattle Times, the LA Times?


Anything?
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freethinker
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« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2008, 10:45:29 AM »

 That is the point we don't know. But deductive reasoning and the retroactive nature of the legislation would tell, even the slowest among us, that violations have been committed.
 What we DO know is that junior wants to make exceptions to the law and the constitution to protect huge corporations from something they have done. Even though they haven't been caught yet. The evidence that laws have been broken lies in the desire to make the immunity retroactive.
 The indictment of wrongdoing lies in the defense!
 The  precedent of their willingness to subvert the constitution to gain partisan political advantage I refer to is, the AG firings and the attempt to change the requirement of congressional approval of replacements as was hidden into the patriot act.
 Observation of the facts reveals a pattern of contempt for the constitution by this administration, and a desire to subvert its intentions by underhanded means.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 10:54:14 AM by freethinker » Logged

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neue regel
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« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2008, 10:53:28 AM »

So to indict the communications companies without evidence and level a fine against them that will be paid out of corporate profits IS premature, you will admit?

Any other examples?
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2008, 11:01:56 AM »

 What I'm saying is, they definitely need to be investigated and the constitution needs to be upheld. The whole point of retroactive immunity is so no investigation will go forward. Who is going to investigate if immunity has been granted?
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