Lollipop
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« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2008, 08:55:24 PM » |
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Posted on: May 08, 2008, 10:07:01 PMPosted by: bio
Insert Quote
Quote from: Lollipop on May 08, 2008, 09:54:03 PM
I just want to invite you to come here and see what China looks like.Using your eyes and ears,buddy,don't just complain and blame before your computer.
Thanks Lollipop, and I'm inviting you to Australia
Thanks.Bio, if you really want to come here,I think you could contact me.I will help you about your vacation.I promise it will be a fabulous vacation.
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zx128k
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« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2008, 09:20:10 PM » |
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 09:57:18 PM by zx128k »
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Lollipop
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« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2008, 09:46:47 PM » |
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Yes,I agree with you.This is a big problem.I admit that there are many people don't know its importance.I respect the great efforts you do.President Hu has the experience to study in western country.He know how important it is.Now in 2 years(I am not very sure,probably 3 years),because of little efforts the National Invironmental Protection Bereau did,the minister was changed triple and a lot of laws about protecting environment were made by the goverment.It seems work,because I find the streams are becoming clear.
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fishbrain
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« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2008, 11:04:46 PM » |
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None of them want to go back.
not true. more are returning to the motherland than ever. now many foreign born chinese brothers and sisters are also coming back home. |
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fishbrain
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« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2008, 11:07:53 PM » |
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Why is it racist to point out that China is a filthy country with rampant pollution?
Why is it racist to point out that the Chinese government brutalises its population, restricts their freedom, and regularly throws dissidents into jail never to be heard from again?
Why is it racist to point out that the Chinese government's policies have killed literally millions of human beings, while enslaving millions more?
Why is it racist to point out that without exception every Chinese national that comes to America wants to stay here rather than go back?
If that's racism, then I'm a racist.
China is filthy, horrible, brutal country.
China is getting better every year. 30 or 40 years before, your might have been true. but now its improvement all the time. remember china has done this without colonising or imperailising other countries. america was stolen. canada was stolen. a ustralia was stolen. china has done it all itself. its true about dissidents but if you don't mind to criticise government, there are no problems. people are freer here than in western countries - not too much of the tax, no "CCTV" cameras, no "PC" health and safety laws. |
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Cune
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« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2008, 11:07:11 AM » |
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Yes, China is improving at the speed of a bullet train.
Why is the west so worried I wonder?
They seem to be great at pointing the finger at China here.
However, they manage to skirt their somewhat dubious past.
Who bayoneted babies at My Lai and let those big brave soldiers go free?
Who carried out indiscriminate carpet bombing?
Who was Saddam's bosom buddy?
Who was backing Bin Laden?
Who was backing some of the worlds most disgusting dictators in South America?
Plenty of who's out there.
I would have thought the moral high ground would be well and truly free of Americans.
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2008, 12:21:11 PM » |
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Lollipop,I don't thnk most of us bashed today's China on the other threads. We rather talked of what Mao had done and personaly, I find wierd that he is still an official idol in your country. We all know that China is much different than 10~20~40 years ago. Now saying it's "like the West" is not true on many aspects. China has an incredible population, like India and Bengladesh, but even worse. And most Chinese still think that a man should have as many children as possible and at least one son is an absolute obligation. Socialy (worker way of life, worker rights, child labour, poverty etc), China makes me think of the Europe of the 19th century. When I read about the life of the workers in our 19th century and the life in China, there are many similarities: Poor workplace safety, teenage work, poor living conditions, poor healthcare, low education, low salaries (yet increasing), amid a huge emerging industrial conplex and smoking chimneys. The emerging western-like/modern middle class which youhave in China as well as a new intelligentia, we had that in the european 19th century too. We even had our Popular revolution (the French Revolution) 50 years before the industrial boom like the one you had 50 years ago. Of course we didn't have computers and tv, but that's only decorative changes. I'm not saying that China is "100 late". No, because you are able to evolve faster and the modern world will make it faster no matter what. But if your mentality is able to switch from "demographic growth" (despite decade of one-child policy, it's still the case) to "better care for less kids" and from "industrial growth" to "social wellbeing" (it's in the end of the 19th century ~ beginning of the 20th that Europe did this transition), then you are on the path to be like the west in a few decades or years. Welcome to the forum! 
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« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 12:25:10 PM by Fredledingue »
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!)  |
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Cune
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« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2008, 10:17:08 PM » |
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Thank you Fredledingue
Your post is the first reasonable post I have read since receiving my welcome message from some biker dud super hero moron.
It read as follows...
"""" Oh well if you say so in your first fucking post, well then it MUST BE TRUE! """"
So I could be forgiven for being a bit pissed when the guy obviously can't even point to China on a map.
You are the first person that has posted a reasonable response so far, so thank you.
First of all I am not Chinese. I am Australian from British parents.
Your overall post is fairly close to the truth but I would add the following...
1. I have many friends in China and NONE, I mean NONE want more than one child.
The truth is they cannot afford it and China is a user pays society.
There is no one child policy in China and it is now termed more accurately as family planning, all be it strict planning.
If a Chinese couple have a girl, they can try for a boy. If they have a second child without approval they can pay a fine to have a second child registered.
The fine varies depending on the wealth of the province but can be 10,000 to 100,000 rmb.
The idea of the fine is that they should not have children unless they can contribute to infrastructure.
This is a sensible policy. With the world population growing from 1 billion in 1900 to 6 billion now and expected to peak at 9 billion, it is necessary.
If China did nothing we would see the same racists accuse China of being irresponsible.
2. There are many things in the period of Mao that I shudder at. Just as there are many things in all other countries history.
Do we see Americans denounce previous governments that presided over the backing of ruthless dictators?
Mao is not a hero figure to common Chinese people. He is an icon that is seen in connection with the start of China.
To many Chinese people Deng Xiao Ping is the hero.
I do not dwell on Mao too much simply because I think that there is no benefit to China at such a critical time.
There will be time for reflection I'm sure when more of the population is educated and articulate.
There has never been a country in the history of the world that has successfully fed, housed and cared for 1.3 billion people.
Is that not an achievement in itself?
There has never been a country that has recorded the massive growth of China in such a short period.
Is that not an achievement in itself.
Why must a western society that has never occupied the moral high ground continually point to China.
China has huge problems and they are working to fix them.
Like a train that is racing as fast as possible.
It can take the corners at a certain speed without running of the rails.
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Lollipop
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« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2008, 02:32:47 AM » |
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Lollipop,
I don't thnk most of us bashed today's China on the other threads. We rather talked of what Mao had done and personaly, I find wierd that he is still an official idol in your country.
We all know that China is much different than 10~20~40 years ago.
Now saying it's "like the West" is not true on many aspects.
China has an incredible population, like India and Bengladesh, but even worse. And most Chinese still think that a man should have as many children as possible ...
Fredledingue,It's a great post.It's important for us to hear the criticizing.(but not insult) I think you are a nice people and you have a high sense of responsibility.I respect you.I agree with you in some aspects,like protecting the environment and the prejudice of gender.But there are some things which almost every Chinese people thinks it as a part of custom or history.Do you find that in some sensitive problems most of historians in the western are support China.They know our custom(much different than yours),our value of life ,our history.In other hand,I admit there are some problems in China.But China has been a independent country not vey long.The countries in Europe have a long time to built themselves and improve the democracy.Our country like a baby, we need advises and a little of forgive.And the Torch on relay in Europe really hurt us a lot... But I still think people in the Europe are not bad. |
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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2008, 04:20:10 AM » |
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Lollipop, a genuine question.
For westerners interested in China, what would be the most accurate media source we could use to read up on the issues from a chinese point of view.
The view by many westerners(rightly or wrongly) is that the media is ruled with an iron fist by the Chinese Government and that censorship is the order of the day.
Has there been many changes in the last 10 years or so regarding media in China?
I think for many westerners it is hard to trust information coming out of China, for fear of censorship of government critical information.
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The greatest tragedy is for a person to die with the music still within them.
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Cune
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« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2008, 04:49:59 AM » |
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I'm sure lollipop will answer this and I apologize for butting in. Your question is complex and most answers would be put down by the resident racists here...
However, I would say, that unless you accept the fact that western media is incredibly biased and ruled by politicians and the elite you will go nowhere. You can check web sites like Chinadaily with an open mind and realize that there are extremes in all media and forums. Maybe, if you can accept the criticism of the west, you can find some middle ground between here and there.
However, I think it is impossible to gain a good understanding of China without being here.
I noticed the huge cultural mistakes that Rudd made and he prides himself on understanding China.
Truth is he was a Beijing diplomat and never mixed with ordinary Chinese people. He hasn't got a clue.
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Viv.
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« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2008, 05:55:31 AM » |
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So what would be the most accurate media source we could use to read up on the issues from a chinese point of view?
Missed your answer.
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Biker Dude
A TRUE Liberal!
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Live to Ride, Ride to Live
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« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2008, 07:56:36 AM » |
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So in other words, you cannot answer her question?
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 Who will watch the watchers?A vote for McCain is a traitorous vote for the destruction of our way of life as we know it. |
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wchao37
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« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2008, 08:11:41 AM » |
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So what would be the most accurate media source we could use to read up on the issues from a chinese point of view?
Missed your answer.
a) you stop relying on the media and try thinking and learning for yourself b) go and visit China - start in Hong Kong, visit Guangzhou, move upwards, take in the amazing scenery Many big cities in the World are polluted, so why should China be any different. You can alway get away from it and see the smaller cities, towns and villages. Don't follow the tourist trails, go and live with real people and see how they live. The idea that people are somehow controlled by the government is utter baloney. |
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mr_pluck
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« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2008, 08:20:37 AM » |
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Good grief, you don't expect any of them to actually have visited China, do you?
Of course not - they like to be fattened by their diet of media and Internet hearsay ...
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