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Author Topic: There aren few differences between the Western and China  (Read 1416 times)
Ahkenaten
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« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2008, 08:58:35 AM »

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a) you stop relying on the media and try thinking and learning for yourself

For the 1000th time -- the plain statement you all must hide under the pillow from: we are not relying on "the evil Western media". That gets lamer every time I hear it. We are relying on first hand accounts, so no I have no plans to visit China, and no plans to immerse myself with crap like this:

Quote
not true.  more are returning to the motherland than ever.  now many foreign born chinese brothers and sisters are also coming back home.

Or this:

Quote
1. I have many friends in China and NONE, I mean NONE want more than one child.
The truth is they cannot afford it and China is a user pays society.
There is no one child policy in China and it is now termed more accurately as family planning, all be it strict planning.
If a Chinese couple have a girl, they can try for a boy. If they have a second child without approval they can pay a fine to have a second child registered.

Hey that's so great. I can see why you're such a cheerleader Roll Eyes No matter how you try and rearrange the pieces it's the same thing. This brit/Auss  larvae is just a typical "I-hate-Americans-I'll-back-anything-not-American-even-another-posters-lies" with nothing but disingenuous bullshit like the above to back it up. The sad fool can't see how it's not "the West" or "Americans" (sounds weaker each time you guys charge that), it most of the planet who can afford to give a rats ass in the first place. To watch this guy try and put a mirror on the rest of us and say "Oh you guys are just as bad" after listening to the straight up propaganda-bots post is the funniest thing I've seen on this forum in a long time.

Quote
Waste of time on these guys.....not worth the effort...
Yeah you keep saying dribble like that and not much else.

Ahk
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 09:01:41 AM by Ahkenaten » Logged

Ah, for just one time I would take the Northwest Passage
  To find the hand of Franklin reaching for the Beaufort Sea;
  Tracing one warm line through a land so wild and savage
  And make a Northwest Passage to the sea.
-Stan Rogers
mr_pluck
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« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2008, 09:03:57 AM »

For the 1000th time -- the plain statement you all must hide under the pillow from: we are not relying on "the evil Western media". That gets lamer every time I hear it. We are relying on first hand accounts, so no I have no plans to visit China, and no plans to immerse myself with crap like this:

Who said anything about the Western media being evil? I read it everyday. I have little problem with the British media since it shows how the UK is going to the dogs on a daily basis.

However it seems you are happy to be spoon fed information rather than going to find out what it is really like.

So, what is your opinion of China then? Deduced from the media and first-hand accounts (from whom)?
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mr_pluck
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« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2008, 09:06:27 AM »

Cune ... it perplexes me why people would rather live in an increasingly lawless country (where gun crime, knife crime and such are getting more common)?

Where petrol is costing more on a weekly basis?

Where the cost of living is going up and up?

They simply have no idea how life can be in China.


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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2008, 09:52:07 AM »

Still waiting for an honest answer here:

Which country punishes their own citizens for criticizing their government online or in print?

The US, UK, Australia, Canada?

or China.




Ahk
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Ah, for just one time I would take the Northwest Passage
  To find the hand of Franklin reaching for the Beaufort Sea;
  Tracing one warm line through a land so wild and savage
  And make a Northwest Passage to the sea.
-Stan Rogers
Fredledingue
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« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2008, 01:20:00 PM »

Quote from: Cune
1. I have many friends in China and NONE, I mean NONE want more than one child.
The truth is they cannot afford it and China is a user pays society.

Thanks for these interesting details, Cune.
Yet, I think your friends are somewhat the urban middle-class, not the villagers who don't speak even official chinese let alone englishand who still live in the past. They too can't afford children, yet have many or would have many without the "family planning".
Such fines exists precisely because too many chinese still didn't get it.
The option to try freely for a boy was added finaly because there were too many infanticides when the first baby was a girl.
Today those who can offord it, use echography and abortion for the same effect thought it's also illegal.
And it's not cases isolated in the mountains: In China there are curretly 58% of boys for 42% of girls (vs. 52% of boys for 48% of girls elsewhere).
Maybe your friend don't care, but as the stats show, most chinese still do care about that.
(Note that more boys than girls will help them growing slowlier. The problem is that homosexuality is still an important crime in China [officialy punishable by death if i'm not mistaken] so I don't know how they will be doing...)

Now, as I said to Lollipop, China is at a turning point, hopefully to something better: more enlighted individual responsability vs. repressive measures. Some chinese like your friends are already beyond this point and I do believe that things are changing fast.

Quote from: Cune
There are many things in the period of Mao that I shudder at. Just as there are many things in all other countries history.
Do we see Americans denounce previous governments that presided over the backing of ruthless dictators?
Mao is not a hero figure to common Chinese people. He is an icon that is seen in connection with the start of China.
To many Chinese people Deng Xiao Ping is the hero.

China is a 3000 years old civilisation, the Han dynasty founded China, how come Mao is the start?
He is not an idol, but he is an icon? how do explain that? Hu?! (pun 'not' intended, well, maybe it was Wink )
Moa was nothing to shrugg about or to scoff at. He (and his group) has shaped the life of billions of poeple in a way never seen before and with unprecedented mistakes.
But ok, that's history now.

Quote from: Cune
There has never been a country in the history of the world that has successfully fed, housed and cared for 1.3 billion people.
Is that not an achievement in itself?
There has never been a country that has recorded the massive growth of China in such a short period.
Is that not an achievement in itself.

No, I don't think it is. I don't see why having billions of poor poeple with low education and very low prospect.
Natural reproduction was not an achievement. It was a burden. A cause for many problem like food supply, housing, polution, clean water, traffic jams, etc.

--------------

Quote from: Lollipop
The countries in Europe have a long time to built themselves and improve  the democracy.Our country like a baby, we need advises and a little of forgive.

Thanks for your reply. In Europe we don't know China very well. Poeple tend to sympathize with Tibet because they are fascinated by their picturesque religion but it has nothing political or against china. The next day we would watch on tv a colorful documentary about some repressed tribes in Myanmar and start to support these poeple too.
In fact, we have no reason to insult chinese and we don't. Most of us even never met one and I never met a Chinese in my life myself. I just know what I know from reading and hearing.

Post-communist China is indeed very young. But you must take it as an advantage, an opportunity to do something new.
Communism worked like a deep-freeze, not only for the economy but for mentality too. Post-communist neo-liberalism is changing things very fast as if you were racing up for the lost time. I see that with eastern europe and Russia and I think China is in such dynamic too, althought differently due to completely different volumes of population.

Cheers.
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2008, 01:40:25 PM »

All irrelevant, abusive, offensive and off-topic comments have been split to the Inferno "where freedom of speach is alive and well".
All deleted posts are here
Many previousely deleted posts from this thread can be found in the Inferno as well.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 01:44:13 PM by Fredledingue » Logged

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cauboi
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« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2008, 01:48:30 PM »

Better later than never.  I couldn't agree more.
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Lollipop
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« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2008, 09:19:39 PM »

It seems that I miss something...  So in my opinion,there isn't 100% truth in the world and there isn't any accurate report in the world.Firstly,the description of the event is delivered one by one.At last,the white probably becomes black,the right probably becomes wrong.Such things alway happen in communications.Secondly,for example,if I tell you that many Tibet people hate Dalai Lama and when the Dalai Lama ruled Tibet,the upper class treats the ordinary people like dogs and pigs.Do you believe it?People  believe the things easily which they think it should be like or  told by the people who has a good relationship with .If I and your best friend tell you one thing in two different kinds of edition.Which one could get your trust?A stranger or a friend,your goverment or our goverment?
   It will be an endless question.We think you are brainwashed and you think we are brainwashed.So why not make the things simple?
   I prefer statistics.
  Judge a goverment:Ask some Chinese people who really live in China like do you think the quality of your lives are developing,do you satisfy with your goverment ,do you want to be ruled by the goverment.   Then get the answer.
   Judge the event:for example,if you get the chance to travel Tibet,you should ask the resident that do you think the quality of your lives are developing,do you satisfy with your goverment ,do you want to be ruled by the goverment ".(don't ask the Tibetan who don't live in or spend most of his time living in Tibet.You could use your eyes to find the answer.
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pengy
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« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2008, 09:23:24 PM »

Village and rural people are usually not subject to the One Child Policy, in fact.  It's not a universal law by any means.

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Lollipop
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« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2008, 09:36:17 PM »

Pengy,I don't agree with your point.The villagers and rural people are important to the country.They feed us.But the quality of their lives are developing.They pay little taxes and get the help and money from the goverment.In many forum and summit,the Chinese goverment is invited to share his experience with the developing countries.
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pengy
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« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2008, 10:06:02 PM »

? what do you disagree with?  I'm saying that rural people are often allowed to have more than one child.  Merely stating a fact.  Huh?
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Lollipop
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« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2008, 10:20:56 PM »

Pengy,I am sorry,I made a mistake.I just saw your post too fast and misunderstood your meanings. Tongue
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 10:22:34 PM by Lollipop » Logged
pengy
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« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2008, 10:50:51 PM »

No probs lollipop  Cool
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2008, 11:43:10 AM »

Quote from: Lollipop
when the Dalai Lama ruled Tibet,the upper class treats the ordinary people like dogs and pigs.Do you believe it?

Yes, but that was the case for all China and all Asia. Read about just how was China before it become a republic...
Anyway I don't see the point in talking about Tibet. IMO, this issue is blown out of proportions.  sleepy Some minorities are angry while they are poor, that happens everywhere. When chinese protest, even when dozen of poeple die in riots against police and hundreds are arrested, the news pass unoticed. When they are tibetians a few weeks before Olympic Games, it makes the headlines everyday.  Angry That's ridiculous.

Now, Lollipop, why do your chinese think that we are brainwashedHuh?
Don't you know that we have free and various sources of information as we have political groups of every political color?  Huh?
The other day I was watching a debate about China (but any debate would be the same) on a french tv chanel at 8pm, watched by millions of poeple: The debate was balanced with differing opinions, pro and cons, leftists and conservators, etc. It was impossible to think that some brainashing was under way.
And everyday on the main french tv chanels you can watch such debates.
In other european countries it's the same. We, in europe LOVE TO debate politics. Tongue More than in the US (where most of the debates pivotate around the presidential campains), yet when you listen to tv shows and opinions you have also a very wide range of views. It's just more a Democrats versus Republican dual, yet still interresting.  Shocked
Maybe your Chinese are brainwashed because you simply don't like to talk or even listen about politics.  Lips Sealed
I'm not saying it's bad (or good), but your culture is different I think.

Regards



« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 11:47:19 AM by Fredledingue » Logged

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« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2008, 07:27:39 PM »

Thanks.Bio, if you really want to come here,I think you could contact me.I will help you about your vacation.I promise it will be a fabulous vacation.

Thanks mate, I will keep in touch.
Frankly, I admire your patience. Unlike others you genuinely trying to build a dialogue and explain your position.
Personally I believe that minority provocateurs were quite successful in fuelling the hatred on both sides, at least in a virtual world. In some cases blatant lie is used.

P.S: Hope that earthquake didn’t affect you.
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