Fredledingue
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« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2007, 10:08:11 AM » |
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Well of course it isn't completely about oil, no war was ever fought over just one reason. I believe the other main goal was to partition Iraq which they are currently also attempting to do.
The U.S. Senate passing that resolution counts for jack in the Mid-East.  My credentials? I worked in the U.S. longer than you have been alive. . ...And the so called "Senate resolution" (a big word for an opinion release) has been swiftly rebuffed by the Bush's office. This event shows clearly that Bush's intent has never been the partitioning of Iraq. Quiete the contrary. Everybody who follows the news even remotely, knows that.
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) 
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Gojira
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« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2007, 11:03:33 AM » |
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*Sigh* Total percentage of US Imports from the Persian Gulf* (ME) was 23% in 2001. Now it is 16% in 2006. See a pattern? It was never about oil. To calculate and see for yourself here's linky: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm*Persian Gulf includes Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and United Arab Emirates.
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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Terry Mathis
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« Reply #62 on: October 03, 2007, 11:49:45 AM » |
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. I and some people know that but it's like 'mass hysteria' when you combine Oil and Mid-East. Cocaine addicts are more under control mate!  - Terry .
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
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Gojira
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« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2007, 12:04:39 PM » |
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I and some people know that but it's like 'mass hysteria' when you combine Oil and Mid-East. Cocaine addicts are more under control mate!  - Terry . Have done the Cocaine and I'd have to disagree. 
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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Terry Mathis
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Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #64 on: October 03, 2007, 12:13:19 PM » |
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I and some people know that but it's like 'mass hysteria' when you combine Oil and Mid-East. Cocaine addicts are more under control mate!  - Terry . Have done the Cocaine and I'd have to disagree.  Shhhhhhhhhhhhh! Me too, but it's our 'secret'!  .
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman
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MALIK
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« Reply #65 on: October 03, 2007, 12:23:39 PM » |
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I can justify the war if it ultimately leads to a proven increased control on the ME oil market...If and only if the cost of American foreign policy doesn't trump increased oil control...and the American GI death toll as well.
The states purpose is protect and increase its power. I'm a realist and a nationalist. What can I say <<shrugging>> I'm not looking our for a Canadian or Iraqi first...if they benefit as well then great, but thats not on my priority list.
So looks like many people are moving from the "liberating Iraqis from Saddam" and "cutting Iraq's relation with AlQaeda" excuses to the "we need oil for our ecenomic growth" reality. Neorealist, is it ok to invade and bomb Iraq if its necessary for your foreign policy ? Isnt it very similar to the terrorists who bomb people because they think its the right policy for the aims of their terrorist organization ?
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freethinker
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« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2007, 12:47:18 AM » |
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Yes the amount of oil from the M.E.has gone down from 2001 to 2007 true. Now I ask... *sigh*... what has happened to the price of that oil within that exact time frame? The purpose of CONTROLING the oil is to NOT pump the oil, driving up demand and prices. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/61/20480
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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gomper7
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« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2007, 01:23:26 AM » |
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Yes the amount of oil from the M.E.has gone down from 2001 to 2007 true. Now I ask... *sigh*... what has happened to the price of that oil within that exact time frame? The purpose of CONTROLING the oil is to NOT pump the oil, driving up demand and prices. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/61/20480The price of oil has gone up significantly from 2001 to 2007. hmmmm... what has the worldwide demand for oil done in that same time frame? Is there a pattern?
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Gojira
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« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2007, 09:08:10 AM » |
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Yes the amount of oil from the M.E.has gone down from 2001 to 2007 true. Now I ask... *sigh*... what has happened to the price of that oil within that exact time frame? The purpose of CONTROLING the oil is to NOT pump the oil, driving up demand and prices. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/61/20480The price of oil has gone up significantly from 2001 to 2007. hmmmm... what has the worldwide demand for oil done in that same time frame? Is there a pattern? Gomper I hope you are saying what I think your saying. And if so, thanks for saying it. Sure, oil imports to the US from the ME has decreased, however then why has overall oil imports to the US increased? Here's the numbers... All oil imports to the U.S. from 2001 to 2006 have increased by 15.4% while oil from the Persian Gulf (ME) has decreased by 20%.* *http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm Prices are rising not because of the decrease in supply in the ME; it is rising because of increased global oil demand. Does China's enormous growth ring a bell? We are now getting the majority of our oil from Canada, Venezuela, and Mexico. Just look at the numbers! What do those three have in common? NAFTA. A coincidence; I think not. Again, like I said, it was never about oil.
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2007, 10:51:03 AM » |
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The goal of the war was to get an US friendly governement in Iraq to buy oil from and stop buying oil from al-qaidas spnsors such as Saudi Arabia. That didn't materialize yet.
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) 
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Gojira
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« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2007, 10:56:25 AM » |
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The goal of the war was to get an US friendly governement in Iraq to buy oil from and stop buying oil from al-qaidas spnsors such as Saudi Arabia. That didn't materialize yet.
Fedledingue you just sparked a whole nother 3 pages to this thread because of that comment. Good job! 
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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freethinker
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« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2007, 10:57:51 PM » |
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Yes the amount of oil from the M.E.has gone down from 2001 to 2007 true. Now I ask... *sigh*... what has happened to the price of that oil within that exact time frame? The purpose of CONTROLING the oil is to NOT pump the oil, driving up demand and prices. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/61/20480The price of oil has gone up significantly from 2001 to 2007. hmmmm... what has the worldwide demand for oil done in that same time frame? Is there a pattern? Gomper I hope you are saying what I think your saying. And if so, thanks for saying it. Sure, oil imports to the US from the ME has decreased, however then why has overall oil imports to the US increased? Here's the numbers... All oil imports to the U.S. from 2001 to 2006 have increased by 15.4% while oil from the Persian Gulf (ME) has decreased by 20%.* *http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_a.htm Prices are rising not because of the decrease in supply in the ME; it is rising because of increased global oil demand. Does China's enormous growth ring a bell? We are now getting the majority of our oil from Canada, Venezuela, and Mexico. Just look at the numbers! What do those three have in common? NAFTA. A coincidence; I think not. Again, like I said, it was never about oil. Wrong it was always all about the oil! http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jan2007/oil-j11.shtml A war for oil
Iraq has 115 billion barrels of known oil reserves—10 percent of the world’s total—and it is estimated that a fully functioning industry could generate $100 billion in annual revenue. The most important resources are in the Majnoon and West Qurna fields, close to Basra in the south of the country, which contain nearly a quarter of Iraq’s proven reserves. On top of this, Iraq is estimated to have between 100 and 200 billion barrels of possible reserves, including in the western desert.
These vast untapped reserves of easily reachable and low-cost oil, not to mention natural gas, have long been a crucial target of the US and British energy conglomerates, particularly as the discovery of new oil deposits elsewhere in the world have drastically slowed and existing reserves have declined. With demand increasing, particularly from rapidly developing countries such as China and India, control of Middle East oil, and control of Iraq’s vast reserves in particular, became a vital geo-strategic goal for American imperialism.
As early as the mid-1990s, there was growing concern that the unraveling of the United Nations sanctions imposed after the first Gulf War would enable Saddam Hussein to establish lucrative agreements with French, Russian, Chinese and other oil companies that would leave the US and Britain out and realign the global energy industry. Political writer Kevin Phillips noted in his book American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century, “So long as the United States and Britain could keep these sanctions in place, using allegations concerning weapons of mass destruction, Saddam could not implement his own plan to extend large-scale oil concessions (estimated to be worth $1.1 trillion)” to their economic rivals in Europe and Asia.
Months after the US invasion of Iraq—and after a long legal battle with the White House—it was revealed that control of Iraq’s oil fields was one of the chief issues discussed in Vice President Dick Cheney’s Energy Task Force meeting with oil executives in 2001. Among the items released under court order were maps of Iraq’s oil fields, pipelines and refineries, with a supporting list of “Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts,” naming more than 60 firms from 30 countries, most prominently France, Russia and China, that had projects either agreed upon or under discussion with Baghdad. The French giant, Total, for example, was to get the 25-billion barrel Majnoon oil field, while Russia’s Lukoil had deals to develop the West Qurna fields.
The Independent article on the new hydrocarbon law noted that it was doubtful that these contracts would be considered valid by the Iraqi government, and that “ExxonMobil is now seen by insiders as the frontrunner to nab the rights to the Majnoon field.”
The actions of the puppet regime in Baghdad have confirmed the fact—suspected by millions of people throughout the world—that an entire country has been shattered and hundreds of thousands killed in a war for oil and profit. And if you still believe the Cheney fairy tale that "its not about oil" I have the easter bunnys foot that was brought to me by santa claus and signed by the tooth fairy. Dick Cheney said it was real and Ill sell it to you for a gazillion dollars. I know you'll buy it cause Dicky said it was real.
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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Gojira
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« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2007, 08:52:26 AM » |
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Are you questioning economics?
Cuz your agenda biased websites don't help your case.
Go read an econ textbook, look at the nubmers I have calculated and then make your own sound economic conclusion. I bet if you did your own anaylsis rather than get it from some socialists webiste you might find some intriguing results.
But believe whatever you want to believe. Cheney has no impact on my arguement. Only the study of Economics does.
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
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Patton
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« Reply #73 on: October 05, 2007, 08:59:35 AM » |
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*Sigh*
Total percentage of US Imports from the Persian Gulf* (ME) was 23% in 2001. Now it is 16% in 2006.
See a pattern? It was never about oil. Recent imports are not a reflection of a wider longterm strategy...sure they went lower...but there is no reason to believe they will remain low once the area becomes more "secure" US imports also don't speak of the other important part of the equation, and that is control of oil allows for denying others to use it also, and with regards the the US wider strategic objectives...this means denying Russia and China access and control.
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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