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Wiglaf
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« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2008, 09:22:39 AM » |
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By the way, the poor building standards are nothing whatsoever to do with 'communism'. In fact, they are more to do with the fact that the central government finds it hard to control all the remote regions. This is true with many of the negative stories about China (e.g. "Land grabs", which are in fact illegal). Hence the fact that many of the building developers are now being tried for this.
This sounds much like the old notion of good tsar, bad boyars. It was just as untrue then in czarist Russia as is is today in China. When something might cause a public relations disaster it's surprising how quickly the central government can act to look like they're doing something. Their common failure to act is not always inability, but is rather an indifference to the depredations of other thieves while they themselves steal from their own people.
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight. James Welch Winter in the Blood
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it. Judge Learned Hand
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2008, 11:15:31 AM » |
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By the way, the poor building standards are nothing whatsoever to do with 'communism'. In fact, they are more to do with the fact that the central government finds it hard to control all the remote regions. When China was communist it was because of communism. Soviet era buildings are crap and birdges must undertake complete renovations. No private apartement or other high rise building company would have dared build how they built under the Soviet Union, and I'd bet in the Chinese soviet union it was the same. The big difference with post-communist China and post communist Russia and Eastern Europe is that China still had to race against their out-of-control demographic growth (+300 millions in one decade) and be under pressure to build new apartments, schools, hydroelectric stations and other things as fast and as cheap as possible. They used this mentality and know-how of do-it-fast-and-cheap in their exportation industry as getting foreign devises was also to some extent an urgent priority in the newly open market. Japan suffers from earthquakes of similar magnitudes, yet their death tolls amount in the hundreds in the worse case. That's because as their population have been stable and slightly decreasing they could afford to improve existing installation, focus on high quake-proof building norms and pull down the less safe premises. The Japan system is not better, but the circumstances are totaly different. On other threads someone argued that raising 1.3 billion poeple was an achievement. I gave this very exampl as to why it was not true. UPDATE: Offers of help have flooded in and foreign rescue teams from Japan, Russia, Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore have arrived. Donations topped 6 billion yuan ($857 million). source
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« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 11:23:11 AM by Fredledingue »
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!) 
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Europe
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« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2008, 03:37:29 AM » |
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Except that around 1800 people died in Katrina and upwards 50000 probably died in the earthquakes. Katrina was a minor "incident" in comparison ... **** you should crawl back under the rock you came from, instead of sabotaging honest pleas for help. Shame on you ... Guess you **** americans need your money for guns so you can kill more Iraqi kids ... The US should send NO MORE than $5 million. That's all they sent us for Katrina. -Qatar has decided on the distribution of about $60 million of a $100 million gift...
-Saudi Arabia, which pledged $100 million...
-including $400 million from Kuwait...
-Among the major donations received were nearly $100 million from the United Arab Emirates; $5 million from Bahrain, $5 million from China; $3.8 million from South Korea; $2 million from Taiwan; $1 million from Brunei; and $1 million from Nigeria.Source
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« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 09:27:09 AM by Fredledingue »
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Patton
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2008, 10:21:22 AM » |
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You.....uh.....sure convinced me.....*****!!!
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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Europe
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2008, 11:04:04 AM » |
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You.....uh.....sure convinced me.....*****!!!
Well I kind of figure you for a lost cause, but there are others
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neorealist
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Mod of further light
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« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2008, 04:31:24 PM » |
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as far as the donations go, I will be donating through the Red Cross as always. China is going to learn a valuable lesson here about accepting aid from the world during this event:
1. Very rarely is help for free-something will be asked in return some time some where 2. The countries that provide aid through human capital (Japan and others) will be conducting methods of information gathering outside the "humanitarian" scope.
This is the reason why the US refused the aid of human capital from Cuba, Greece, and others.
Its a shame, but the world still operates through the prism of realism. Nation states ALWAYS act in their own interst.
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The man who smiles when things go wrong has thought of someone to blame it on. - Robert Bloch
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AUGUSTUSQ
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« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2008, 08:44:34 PM » |
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thank you all american friends who donated to the victims. We have seen your kindness. You kind donations out of charity are well appriciated by Chinese people, which proves American people in general are kind. S. Heroin, please do not be disappointed, though your hitler-like image has not function as Hitler itself. But remember you still have a lot of opportunities to be a kind and humane person if you give up the predjudice.
if you love people at all your best, and people will love you at all their best. If we love each other, the world will be better. . Thank you all, those kind people.
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2008, 07:24:44 AM » |
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thank you all american friends who donated to the victims. We have seen your kindness. You kind donations out of charity are well appriciated by Chinese people, which proves American people in general are kind. Of course -- when the rubber hits the road, it's the Americans that come running. Whether it's the tsunami, the Burma cyclone, or the Chinese earthquake, or whatever third-world destitute country that gets hit by natural disaster, without fail, it's the Americans that have boots on the ground. S. Heroin, please do not be disappointed, though your hitler-like image has not function as Hitler itself. But remember you still have a lot of opportunities to be a kind and humane person if you give up the predjudice. You can always tell when people have nothing of value to say - the comparisons to Nazi's and Hitler come out. Although I absolutely no clue what you are trying to say, if you hint that I am "hitler-like" because I refuse to contribute through Chinese bureaucracies, then that's fine. Like I've said all along, if you would bother to read and understand, is that I think it's great for people to make donations to the victims. However, NO ONE should contribute through the dictatorship's bureaucracies. If you want to make a donation, do so through your local, brick and mortar Red Cross office. Do NOT under any circumstance wire money to China. It's likely a scam in the first place, and even if it's not a scam, why would you want to purchase Mrs. Hu another jade necklace. I think she has enough expensive jewelry. There is absolutely NO assurance that your money will reach the victims. Much better to go through local agencies. Augustusq, perhaps if you actually had a free and open government, then I would feel more confident in sending donations there. Why don't you go protest for a democratic government? Oh wait, you can't. You're Chinese - that means you live in political oppression under a dictator. Have fun with that.
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 07:47:42 AM by Stephen Hero »
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2008, 07:29:12 AM » |
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Except that around 1800 people died in Katrina and upwards 50000 probably died in the earthquakes. Katrina was a minor "incident" in comparison ...
**** you should crawl back under the rock you came from, instead of sabotaging honest pleas for help. Shame on you ... Garbage. Pure garbage. The death toll is high only because the Chinese government builds schools that in America would be condemned. I've already posted statements from architects that in the US, even if a 7.9 earthquake occurred, it wouldn't have this level of destruction. The Chinese government, once again, is responsible for the deaths of thousands of their citizens due to sub-standard building codes and using shoddy building materials. Unfortunately, the good citizens of this oppressive regime can't protests against their government or ask for better buildings. Communist dictatorships don't take well to dissent. Or proper building codes.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2008, 07:47:15 AM » |
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Except that around 1800 people died in Katrina and upwards 50000 probably died in the earthquakes. Katrina was a minor "incident" in comparison ...
**** you should crawl back under the rock you came from, instead of sabotaging honest pleas for help. Shame on you ... Garbage. Pure garbage. The death toll is high only because the Chinese government builds schools that in America would be condemned. I've already posted statements from architects that in the US, even if a 7.9 earthquake occurred, it wouldn't have this level of destruction. The Chinese government, once again, is responsible for the deaths of thousands of their citizens due to sub-standard building codes and using shoddy building materials. Unfortunately, the good citizens of this oppressive regime can't protests against their government or ask for better buildings. Communist dictatorships don't take well to dissent. Or proper building codes. Maybe those building engineers are about as smart as you ...
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2008, 07:51:40 AM » |
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Maybe those building engineers are about as smart as you ...
Ooooo. Good comeback. What are you, like 9 years old? What's your next post, "I'm rubber; you're glue?" Or, "Sticks and stones?" You are very clever. "You stink!" Is that your next post? Nevermind -- I just read Ahk's posts. I shouldn't feed the troll, as they say. Troll on! I think there's a bridge near with billy goats crossing over. Go! Go now! For the good of storybook's everywhere.
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 07:53:56 AM by Stephen Hero »
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2008, 08:15:20 AM » |
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Remeber the Los Angeles earthquake in 1994 - that one was a 6.4 ? Do you know the difference between 8.0 and 6.4 ? That's 40 time stronger mate ... Maybe those building engineers are about as smart as you ...
Ooooo. Good comeback. What are you, like 9 years old? What's your next post, "I'm rubber; you're glue?" Or, "Sticks and stones?" You are very clever. "You stink!" Is that your next post? Nevermind -- I just read Ahk's posts. I shouldn't feed the troll, as they say. Troll on! I think there's a bridge near with billy goats crossing over. Go! Go now! For the good of storybook's everywhere.
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2008, 11:38:17 AM » |
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Facts, sir. Let's deal with facts. Most of your posts seem to be made up crap. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/nca/wg02/losses.phpThis is a threat/loss estimation by the United States Geological Services - it estimates the impact of a 7.9 earthquake in San Francisco, the downtown bay area. A repeat of the 1906 magnitude 7.9 earthquake, the worst case scenario for the Bay Area, is estimated to result in about 5800 fatalities if it strikes during working hours. This estimate is comparable to the approximately 6000 deaths caused by the 1995 M6.9 Kobe earthquake that occurred in the afternoon directly beneath an urban area with a population of 1.52 million people. Most scenarios, however, have maximum projected fatalities on the order of several hundred, reflecting the success of earthquake-resistant design and construction practices in California, particularly in residences. Hmm... 7.9 earthquake in a major metropolitan city. Most scenarios have projected fatalities at several hundred. In shoddily built Chinese, low-quality, sub-standard hovels, the same earthquake kills tens of thousands. The problem with mitigating the effects of the earthquake is that the Chinese government builts deathtraps for its schoolchildren. I'd love to see the good people of Sichuan get treated better. But they won't. They're ruled over by dictators. The government dictators don't care what's best for their people - as long as they maintain power and their tax revenues.
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« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 11:41:28 AM by Stephen Hero »
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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