Europe
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« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2008, 10:45:33 AM » |
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If you are dumb enough to believe what you type, especially in light of other similar US agencies failing miserably in the past, then so be it .... Cheers mate - I hope for your sake you live far away from the quake areas. Great. Your inability to post any refuting facts, despite repeated requests, speaks volumes.
The discussion is then concluded that the brutal Chinese dictatorship exacerbated the death tolls in China through its corruption, bribery and substandard building codes. Whereas a similar earthquake in the US would claim the lives of hundreds, in China, it claims the lives of tens of thousands.
That's the real problem in China: its government. Those earthquakes happen from time to time. But because the Chinese government doesn't care about its citizenry, is corrupt, and because the citizens have NO input into the decisions of the dictatorship, tragedies like the earthquake are exacerbated.
If China was a free and open democracy with a clean government, tens of thousands of Chinese victims would still be alive. The Chinese government has their deaths on its hands, particularly the deaths of those poor young children lost in those deathtraps of buildings they call schoolhouses.
Communism sucks.
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2008, 11:44:24 AM » |
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If a 7.9 earthquake ever hit, and I had to choose between being in San Francisco or being in Chengdu, I'll take San Francisco every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
The Chinese government is responsible for those deaths.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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AUGUSTUSQ
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« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2008, 07:21:50 PM » |
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[quote authorAugustusq, perhaps if you actually had a free and open government, then I would feel more confident in sending donations there. Why don't you go protest for a democratic government? Oh wait, you can't. You're Chinese - that means you live in political oppression under a dictator. Have fun with that.
[/quote]
I do not think I need a government as you have. My government is good.
Only two days ago, Chinese people gathered in the Tianmen Square to mourn the dead and support the government.
Perhaps you do not know.
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zhr
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« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2008, 07:41:12 PM » |
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Stop arguing!!This thread is talking about lives not politics!!
If you wanna help us ,thank you very much!!
If you don't wanna help us,please respect lives!!
We really need your help,Please please please help us.
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Wiglaf
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« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2008, 10:05:03 PM » |
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Stop arguing!!This thread is talking about lives not politics!!
If you wanna help us ,thank you very much!!
If you don't wanna help us,please respect lives!!
We really need your help,Please please please help us.
Is anyone really arguing against giving donations? I certainly don't see them on this thread. So they don't want to donate directly to an organization in China. So what! They're donating to organizations that are helping Chinese citizens, aren't they? In fact I heartily encourage them to do so despite my loathing of what China's government stands for. If people want to fault the government's laxness on earthquake safety issues for adding to the tragedy that is a separate issue, but certainly one worthy of our consideration. As a longtime resident of California who knows a little about what survives an earthquake and what doesn't, the images alone show that newer buildings weren't up to snuff. The local government officials who approved some of these seismically unsafe schools or looked the other way while people used shoddy materials should be held criminally liable. I predict a couple token ones will be, but it probably won't change things materially. |
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight.
James Welch Winter in the Blood
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it.
Judge Learned Hand
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Europe
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« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2008, 11:46:53 PM » |
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If a 7.9 earthquake ever hit, and I had to choose between being in San Francisco or being in Chengdu, I'll take San Francisco every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
The Chinese government is responsible for those deaths.
Yeah, right - just like the US government is responsible for the deaths after Hurricane Katrina ... |
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zhr
Newbie
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« Reply #66 on: May 21, 2008, 12:15:42 AM » |
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Yes,something you talked about are problems we should considere.But didn't you see Chinese government are trying their best to survive??Our Premier Wen arrived Sichuan in two hours after the earthquake,when he talked to some victims,you even can saw tears in his eyes.And our Presider Hu arrived Sichuan several days later,when he talked to the soliders in heavy destroyed area,the aftershock came.He just stoped for a seconds and continued his speech.There have been over hundred aftershocks in Sichuan,but our most two important leaders still came to there to encourage the soliders,and to comfort the citizens in dangers.It is really great.Two days ago,the whole country mourning at 2:28p.m.,and when I stand in silent tribute at class,I heared the drivers sounded their horns on the road.I really touched.In last week,Not only my mum but also my roommates'mums cried everyday when they watching TV.The whole China are crying for the people who lost lives,for the people who lost their children,for the people who lost their parents,for the people who lost their lives when they helped others.
And at this time,what we need is your understand and your support.You know at this time,how meaningful if You come to this thread and say Come on,China etc.
Please stop criticism,at this time we really need you encouragement.If you don't wanna say any encouragement words,please keep a few days silent during our mourning days.
If you do that,i thank you from my hears.
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zhr
Newbie
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« Reply #67 on: May 21, 2008, 12:19:03 AM » |
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If a 7.9 earthquake ever hit, and I had to choose between being in San Francisco or being in Chengdu, I'll take San Francisco every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
The Chinese government is responsible for those deaths.
Yeah, right - just like the US government is responsible for the deaths after Hurricane Katrina ... It's a 8.0 earthquake |
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mdma
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« Reply #68 on: May 21, 2008, 09:57:57 AM » |
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ffs ppl dead there, just stfu.
Natural disasters hit everywhere and certainly not to punish certain nation but all of us, if at all.
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notin
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2008, 10:14:21 AM » |
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But didn't you see Chinese government are trying their best to survive?? Communist dictators are great doing their best to survive. If the Chinese government *really* wanted to help the people of Sichuan, they would abandon Communism and promote a free, open, democratic society where the people have autonomy over the actions of the government. The Chinese government is CORRUPT. And that corruption has led to sub-standard buildings. Those schoolchildren were going to school in deathtraps. The Chinese government is responsible for those deaths. If the Chinese dictators and Communists had cared one bit about the people there they would have built buildings that meet certain standards. But the buildings built by the Communists are garbage. They fell over quickly and killed thousands of people. But that's what you get with Communism: corruption and death. You want encouragement? I encouraged the Chinese to rise in revolt and put off their government, like they did in Tiananmen Square. I encourage the Chinese people to demand democracy and clean government from their leaders. I encourage the Chinese to insist and demand free speech, free association, free religion, free press and freedom to make personal decisions in their lives, such as where to live and how many children to have. I encourage all those things. Except, my only fear is, that like the poor people in Tiananmen Square, the Communist dictators will murder them, just like they gunned down hundreds of people in cold blood in the streets of Beijing. |
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #70 on: May 21, 2008, 10:17:22 AM » |
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Stephen Hero
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Posts: 186
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« Reply #71 on: May 21, 2008, 10:26:29 AM » |
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If people want to fault the government's laxness on earthquake safety issues for adding to the tragedy that is a separate issue, but certainly one worthy of our consideration. As a longtime resident of California who knows a little about what survives an earthquake and what doesn't, the images alone show that newer buildings weren't up to snuff. The local government officials who approved some of these seismically unsafe schools or looked the other way while people used shoddy materials should be held criminally liable. I predict a couple token ones will be, but it probably won't change things materially.
Exactly right. It was corrupt Communist officials, as well as the people having no say in how their government runs that exacerbated the death toll. Like I said above, a similar earthquake in the US kills hundreds. In China, it kills tens of thousands. Those deaths are the responsible of the government. The Communists allow only one child in China - and then the good people of China have to entrust that one child to go to a school that is a deathtrap waiting to happen. Totalitarian dictators never have the interest of the people at heart. |
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Stephen Hero
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Karma: +29/-83
Posts: 186
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« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2008, 10:38:23 AM » |
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I do not think I need a government as you have. My government is good. You're funny. Thanks for the great laugh. Your government is brutal. Dissenters are thrown in jail. Free speech is not allowed. Certain religions are outlawed. Your government forces mothers against their will to abort babies that the "good government" thinks are unnecessary. Your government tyrannical rules over lands and areas where they have no business. Your government kills people in the streets when they demonstrate against Communism. Your government pollutes the earth in ways that make China ugly and nearly poisonous. Your government has no respect for human rights. Your government arrests Uighurs for merely practicing their religion and then kills anyone who demands their release. Your government filters all internet and media sources. Your government is awful, brutal and totalitarian. Only two days ago, Chinese people gathered in the Tianmen Square to mourn the dead and support the government.
Perhaps you do not know.
You mean the dead people that your government killed in Tiananmen Square? Those people? You know, the ones that wanted democracy? Did people gather and mourn them? |
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Fredledingue
Global Moderator
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« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2008, 10:54:51 AM » |
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zhr,
Thanks for your input. China is living through realy difficult times and I agree it's not time for political discussion.
But this is a political forum (not on a charity forum) and so please forgive those who talk politics in a way that may seem displaced from where you are.
Best regards.
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 Dr. Zoidberg is jewish (and an important AIPAC donator!)  |
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