Stephen Hero
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« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2008, 08:44:54 AM » |
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Whatever you say, sport.
I think it's the "ostrich in the sand" syndrome. You can continue to close your eyes and deny reality, but you have yet to provide any facts that contradict my point: that the US is decreasing its emissions while the EU hypocritically increases theirs. Your points don't address trends, only volume. Address trends.
Why have nearly all (or maybe all) of the Kyoto signatories failed to meet their agreement terms and instead of reducing emissions, have actually increased them? Why do you think the US should sign on to the Kyoto protocol in light of its absolute failure among those already signing it? Particularly, answer why the US should sign on when the non-Kyoto measures undertaken by the US are, in fact, decreasing US emissions, while Europe continues to increase its emissions?
But you won't address that. Predictably, you'll post something irrelevant. Again. You are cute for trying to keep up though. I appreciate that. Address the trends, please, won't you?
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2008, 09:31:40 AM » |
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Well a change one year is irrelevant in light of a systematic increase ove the last 20 years.
It's not the change that contributes relevant to the greenhouse effect - it's the AMOUNT of emissions. Ok now I have addressed that point and show you decreas to be irrellevant.
Tha min thing is that US is still 4 times worse per capita than China (and the EU), there is no way you can hide that fact no matter how many times you cite you single source of bogus statistics.
Quit bitching, moron ...
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Stephen Hero
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Karma: +29/-83
Posts: 186
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« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2008, 10:05:32 AM » |
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Well a change one year is irrelevant in light of a systematic increase ove the last 20 years.
Great, so it looks like we agree that the US is decreasing its emissions, while the EU hypocritically increases their emissions in spite of the Kyoto Protocols. Next question: Why should the US sign Kyoto then? Let's focus - you have this jejune habit of meandering onto irrelevant topics.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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Posts: 131
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« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2008, 10:19:57 AM » |
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The US already signed, but did not ratify the Kyoto protocol. If it is ratified by the US it makes a legally binding commitment to reducing the emissions. The US refuses to do that because it apparently intends to keep its positions as one of the worst per capita polluters in the world. That is in short why the US environmental policy is morally bankrupt. Well a change one year is irrelevant in light of a systematic increase ove the last 20 years.
Great, so it looks like we agree that the US is decreasing its emissions, while the EU hypocritically increases their emissions in spite of the Kyoto Protocols. Next question: Why should the US sign Kyoto then? Let's focus - you have this jejune habit of meandering onto irrelevant topics.
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Stephen Hero
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Karma: +29/-83
Posts: 186
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« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2008, 10:25:17 AM » |
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Your argument doesn't make sense in light of the facts that I posted that US emissions are decreasing. How do you reconcile your statement that:
"The US...intends to keep its positions as one of the worst per capita polluters in the world."
with the fact that US emissions are decreasing year to year, as shown above? If the US intended to keep its position as one of the worse per capita polluters in the world, wouldn't it follow the EU model and actually increase its emissions, like Europe?
Your statement doesn't comport with reality. Try again.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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Posts: 131
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« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2008, 10:31:15 AM » |
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Rofl, the US is already 3-4 times worse than everyone else - there will need to be alot of decrese before you are down to the level point where you have comparable emissions to civilized nations. Your argument doesn't make sense in light of the facts that I posted that US emissions are decreasing. How do you reconcile your statement that:
"The US...intends to keep its positions as one of the worst per capita polluters in the world."
with the fact that US emissions are decreasing year to year, as shown above? If the US intended to keep its position as one of the worse per capita polluters in the world, wouldn't it follow the EU model and actually increase its emissions, like Europe?
Your statement doesn't comport with reality. Try again.
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Stephen Hero
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Karma: +29/-83
Posts: 186
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« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2008, 10:37:19 AM » |
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Again:
How do you explain your statement that the US intends to maintain its position as the worst per capita polluter in light of its decreasing emissions? Justify your statement. How do you explain your argument faulting the US for not signing/ratifying the Kyoto Protocols in light of the EU's failure to meet its commitments under Kyoto? Especially in light that not only is the EU not meeting its reduction goals, the EU is actually increasing its emissions of greenhouse gases?
Respond. Try hard to address the issue. Take one last go at it.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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Posts: 131
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« Reply #82 on: May 20, 2008, 10:42:36 AM » |
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Do you now understand that the US is one of the worst polluters in the world, and probalbly the worst when it comes to CO2 ?
I will be waiting for you answer ... please try to adress the issue ...
What is the target for the US when it comes to the per-capita emissions in say 2015 ?
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Stephen Hero
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Karma: +29/-83
Posts: 186
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« Reply #83 on: May 20, 2008, 10:56:26 AM » |
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I've never denied that the US is a leading emitter of greenhouse gases. You are a very poor debater. A very poor logician, certainly.
At least the question is then settled (again by your refusal to respond) that US emissions are decreasing; EU emissions are increasing. The US is doing exactly what it said it would do, honestly and up front. The EU is failing to do what they pledged to do and hypocritically criticizes the US while EU emissions continue to increase year after year. The US was wise to not sign Kyoto. It proves that the signatory countries are more interested in words than actions. The US is engaging the problem and reducing its emissions. The EU talks about the problem and increases their emissions.
At least that's settled. Thanks for the discussion.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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Karma: +0/-33
Posts: 131
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« Reply #84 on: May 20, 2008, 11:04:51 AM » |
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Good that you agree that the US is a worse per capita CO2 polluter than 90 % of the rest of the world, and in particular worse than both China and the EU. Good that we could settle that ...
Then may I ask, why did you start bitching about China when the US is actually worse ?
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Stephen Hero
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Posts: 186
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« Reply #85 on: May 20, 2008, 11:41:17 AM » |
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Here you're comparing apples to oranges, you know that.
The emission of greenhouse gases - although a problem, isn't the pollution that was being discussed in this thread. It was red herring introduced by you. The pollution that is discussed in this thread is the Chinese filth and pollution that is regularly pumped into their groundwater, soil, rivers and air. It is the desertification of nearly half their country. It is the staggering increase of acidic rain pouring down on the heads of the hapless Chinese citizenry. Those are different issues. This filth and pollution that China is content contaminating its environment is now spreading to South Korea and Japan. It is an entirely different issue. I trust that is clearer than the water in Beijing, that is, if you can even see it during the regular sandstorms.
It is good that we settled that the EU signatories are hypocrites for calling on the US on Kyoto, when the US is actually reducing their emissions while the EU steadily increases theirs.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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Europe
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Karma: +0/-33
Posts: 131
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« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2008, 11:46:29 AM » |
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Well most informed people see the Co2 and greenhouse gas emissions as the most important pollution seen from a global perspective, but apparently not you ...
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Stephen Hero
Full Member
 
Karma: +29/-83
Posts: 186
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« Reply #87 on: May 20, 2008, 01:10:54 PM » |
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Whatever subjective importance people place on that issue, that wasn't the point of the thread - just a non sequitor you introduced. Again, I'm glad we cleared that up as well.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
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