Charlie, you don't get it.  You haven't since this topic was posted. First, I am a registered voter in CA.  8 years ago I voted against Prop. 22. It passed. The Supreme Court of CA found
it unconstitutional.  Groups from out of state that others have quoted from posted news articles put a new initiative on the CA ballot for Nov.  Now other groups are asking the Supremes to remove it as it was not according to the group who have now filed suit illegal as a method of changing the CA Constitution.  I'm not an attorney. However, what you still
don't get, is the CA Supremes will rule to leave it on the ballot.  If it is there in Nov. I will fill in the NO bubble on the permanent absentee ballot with my single vote. But Charlie,
you don't have a vote in CA because you claim to reside in another state.  How I choose to vote is my prerogative. 

What I've done on this thread including the post to day, for the most part, is simply report the status of this issue in a state where you have no rights nor personal interest.  None of
your business what voters nor the CA Supremes choose to do. And yes, Charlie, no doubt by anyone who has read this thread, you're a bigot, a homophobe as well as a pitiful exuse
for a human being.  But then what can one expect of a person with your overall world view.

 Char Mar is one sick puppy...










 and he is wrong on just about everything.

Sorry Abraxas this is about marriage. And your apples and oranges analogies don't work either. The discrimination that is clear is based on gender and if you're already married, relations if you're a first cousin or better. Not one person in these United States has ever been denied a marriage license by any State based on sexual orientation. Not once.

I think the lecture on marriage is mute, it's We the People who need to be defining it. Should it be a legislative effort from California, I can't see my argument. A judicial overreach in the worst degree gets my wrath, so do those sleeping through it and even in some cases, celebrating it. Clueless!

Maybe you'll listen to the court's decision, then?

"It also is important to understand at the outset that our task in this proceeding is not to decide whether we believe, as a matter of policy, that the officially recognized relationship of a same-sex couple should be designated a marriage rather than a domestic partnership (or some other term), but instead only to determine whether the difference in the official names of the relationships
violates the California Constitution."

The court's ruling, whether in support or dessent, is NOT over marriage but whether banning gay marriage is a violation of rights.

It. Is. Not. About. Marriage. It. Is. About. Rights.

Period.


If "We the people" had the choice, interracial marriages would have been banned, but now they are (generally) accepted by society. Sadly, the court had to intervene and say prohibiting interracial marriage was unconstitutional. "We the people" were wrong and we know that now.

Allowing gay marriage is just one more step in the social progress of this country and an attempt to truely equalize the people of this country.

While IMHO Abraxas your argument about equality is the more relevant one, though I departed this thread other than for updates, there is one that no doubt will draw Charlie back to it as it may or may not be a factor in the ballot initiative now labeled Prop 8 on the November ballot in CA. 

It appears in one more attempt to attract the votes of the rabid, religious right , the GOP candidate for the Oval Office has made a decision to throw his support behind Prop. 8.  This along with the off shore oil drilling puts him in direct conflict with the very popular GOP Governor of CA and also in conflict with his own support or lack of support for other political actions on this issue in the past.

McCain backs initiative barring gay marriage in California
By Aurelio Rojas - arojas@sacbee.com
Published 12:00 am PDT Saturday, June 28, 2008

GOP presidential candidate John McCain has endorsed the November ballot measure to ban same-sex marriage in California.

The endorsement, announced Thursday night on ProtectMarriage.com, the Web site of the Protect Marriage campaign, was not a surprise. The Arizona senator previously said he was happy Californians would be voting on the measure, which the secretary of state's office designated Friday as Proposition 8.

"I support the efforts of the people of California to recognize marriage as a unique institution between a man and a woman, just as we did in my home state of Arizona," McCain said in a statement released by the Protect Marriage campaign. "I do not believe judges should be making these decisions."

The California Supreme Court overturned the state's ban on gay marriage in May. Massachusetts is the only other state to sanction them.

Protect Marriage campaign chairman Ron Prentice welcomed McCain's endorsement and urged his Democratic opponent, Sen. Barack Obama, to add his support.

"We hope that U.S. Sen. Barack Obama will join Sen. McCain in endorsing the initiative, and would welcome his support as well," Prentice said in the statement.

McCain endorsed a 2006 Arizona initiative defining marriage as only between a man and a woman – which was defeated – but voted against a federal constitutional amendment against gay marriage.

Obama also opposes same-sex marriage but has said each state should make its own decision. The Illinois senator has not signaled interest in weighing in on the California measure.

Obama opposes a federal constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage and has said he's interested in ensuring that same-sex couples in civil unions receive federal benefits.

Jeff Flint, a spokesman for the Protect Marriage campaign, predicted McCain's endorsement would help build support for the marriage ban in California.

"Sen. McCain is universally respected, and his endorsement will certainly help," Flint said.

But Steve Smith, a spokesman for the Equality For All Campaign, called McCain's endorsement "inconsequential."

"This is the kind of campaign where people will decide for themselves based on what they feel in their gut," said Smith, whose group opposes a ban.

The Protect Marriage campaign has not asked McCain to campaign for the ban but will tout his support, Flint said.

Smith predicted McCain won't spend much time in the state before the November election because Obama "is going to win California handily."

Proposition 8 would amend the state constitution to provide that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in the state.

In 2000, more than 61 percent of voters approved a statute declaring that only marriage between a man and a woman is valid in California.

Polls indicate the Nov. 4 vote will be much closer.


Interestingly, McCain's home state is the only one to date to have had such a ballot initiative defeated by a vote of the citizens of Arizona.
Does this foretell a similar vote in CA in November?  Time will tell.

"In 2006, Arizona voters became the first in the nation to reject a constitutional amendment defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman. That measure, which also would have blocked governments from providing benefits to gay or straight domestic partners, failed 48 percent to 52 percent." 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/03/20080403marriage-measure0403-ON.html

Just to add the info from the SBC website.  A little campaigning from the pulpit for McCain?  Wonder if he managed to get an endorsement from his visit with Billy and Franklin Graham over the weekend? Talk about kowtowing to the religious right?  One more "flip flop" from 2000. 

ELECTION 08: McCain supports, Obama opposes Calif. marriage amendment

Posted on Jun 30, 2008 | by Michael Foust
SAN FRANCISCO (BP)--Republican John McCain says he supports a proposed constitutional marriage amendment in California and Democrat Barack Obama says he opposes it, putting the two men on opposite sides of a contentious issue that is certain to draw nationwide attention this fall.

McCain's campaign sent a statement June 26 to ProtectMarriage.com, the pro-family campaign behind the effort to pass the November ballot initiative known as Proposition 8. The statement came weeks after a previous statement about his position on an amendment was criticized as less-than-clear.

"I support the efforts of the people of California to recognize marriage as a unique institution between a man and a woman, just as we did in my home state of Arizona," McCain said, referring to a 2006 vote on an amendment in Arizona. "I do not believe judges should be making these decisions."

If passed, the amendment would overturn a May 15 California Supreme Court ruling that legalized "gay marriage." ProtectMarriage.com posted McCain's statement on its website.

"As a leader in the United States Senate and the presumptive Republican presidential nominee, Senator McCain's position will be an important factor to millions of Californians," ProtectMarriage.com Chairman Ron Prentice said in a statement. "... We look forward to working with Senator McCain and many other elected leaders to accomplish this. We hope that U.S Senator Barack Obama will join Senator McCain in endorsing the initiative, and would welcome his support as well."

But Obama publicly stated his opposition to the amendment shortly after McCain released his new statement. As reported by homosexual media, Obama made his position known in a letter to the Alice B. Toklas LGBT Democratic Club, a San Francisco-based organization that works to influence the Democratic Party on homosexual issues.

"I oppose the divisive and discriminatory efforts to amend the California Constitution, and similar efforts to amend the U.S. Constitution or those of other states," Obama said. "For too long, issues of LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender] rights have been exploited by those seeking to divide us."

Additionally, Obama's wife, Michelle, spoke at a gathering of homosexual Democrats June 26 and underscored her husband's opposition to the proposal (see below).

For information about the amendment, or to donate to the amendment campaign, visit ProtectMarriage.com (out-of-state donations are legal).

MICHELLE OBAMA ADDRESSES GAY DEMOCRATS -- Michelle Obama received a standing ovation when she spoke at a dinner held June 26 by the Gay & Lesbian Leadership Council of the Democratic National Committee. The wife of Democrat Barack Obama, she touted her husband's record on homosexual issues.

"Barack is not new to the cause of the LGBT [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender] community," she said, according to a transcript. "It has been a conviction of his career since he was first elected to public office."

She contrasted the choice between Obama and Republican John McCain and argued that Obama would deliver a "world where together we work to reverse discriminatory laws like DOMA and Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and "a world where our federal laws don't discriminate against same-sex relationships." DOMA is the Defense of Marriage Act, a law that gives states the ability to prohibit the recognition of "gay marriages" from other states.

"[H]e opposes all divisive and discriminatory constitutional amendments -- whether it's a proposed amendment to the California and Florida constitutions or the U.S. Constitution," she said. "Because the world as it should be rejects discrimination."

DOBSON RECONSIDERING POSITION ON MCCAIN? -- Focus on the Family's James Dobson may be reconsidering how he'll vote in the presidential election in light of his strong opposition to Democrat Barack Obama. Dobson appeared on Sean Hannity's radio program June 24 to criticize Obama's use of Scripture. In the past, Dobson has said he would vote but possibly not for president, and if he did, it would be for a third party candidate. Hannity asked him if he was reconsidering.

"Sean, I'm going to waffle on you here," Dobson responded. "The last time I was on your program you asked me that question and I said I definitely will vote. I think we have a God-given responsibility to vote. I am not going to tell people how I'll vote. I think you just heard how I feel about Obama. And I have major concerns about McCain, too. He's better than Obama but I have major concerns.... This is a private matter for me."

Hannity then asked, "Will you announce it before the election?"

"I don't really know whether I will or not," Dobson replied.
--30--
Michael Foust is an assistant editor of Baptist Press.

http://www.sbc.net/redirect.asp?url=http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=28388