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Author Topic: Too, too far...  (Read 545 times)
bringbackwigs
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« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2008, 11:24:29 AM »

I hate people.

Your best post by far.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of you.

I don't think I want to know what it was before.
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Biker Dude
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« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2008, 12:36:47 PM »

I hate people.

Your best post by far.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of you.

I don't think I want to know what it was before.
Do you really care?
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Who will watch the watchers?

Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about?
bringbackwigs
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« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2008, 01:47:37 PM »

I hate people.

Your best post by far.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of you.

I don't think I want to know what it was before.
Do you really care?

Good point.
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain

Jericoacoara
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« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2008, 04:16:44 PM »

I have to laugh at the irony of it though.

One of the main reasons the county is not employing smokers is because of concerns about lost productivity.

Since when has productivity and government departments gone hand in hand?  Undecided

You're right. I didn't see that.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

I wonder if that ruling would allow for workers to deny employment because of obesity (a better analogy then the one I used). I'll have to look into that.


Well, if they can prove a link between obesity and rising medical costs and loss of productivity, then presumably they could be banned to.

Looking from afar, it is a pretty heavy handed policy and legal precedent being set. I doubt if something like that would ever get up in Australia. The difference being is that our employment laws are all federal whereas the US appears to be state???.

My personal opinion is that private businesses and non government businesses should have the right to hire whoever they want, or not hire whoever they don't want in this particular case. But as this is a government body, I think the circumstances change and they should be more accomodating of employees/potential employees than private businesses. Just my thoughts.

As said before, IMO an outright ban is an over reaction and they could have solved the problems with smoking workers other ways.

It is not set in stone though. All it needs is one smoker to take it to court, and for the court to overturn the previous 1995 ruling, and the whole policy is thrown out.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2008, 04:40:50 PM »

My personal opinion is that private businesses and non government businesses should have the right to hire whoever they want, or not hire whoever they don't want in this particular case. But as this is a government body, I think the circumstances change and they should be more accomodating of employees/potential employees than private businesses. Just my thoughts.

My thoughts too!

Quote from: Jeri
It is not set in stone though. All it needs is one smoker to take it to court, and for the court to overturn the previous 1995 ruling, and the whole policy is thrown out.

Of course, like ALL stories like this, we never hear about that.

Like the guy who shot people robbing his neighbors house. I still don't know how that panned out.

And the appeal by Fred Phelps over the father that was offended by stuff he said at his sons funeral (while obeying all proximity zone laws)... so he sued him... and won. What happened?

Anyway, I would like to see how this goes, but I doubt we will.
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2008, 12:54:35 PM »

I hate people.

Your best post by far.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of you.

I don't think I want to know what it was before.
Do you really care?

Good point.

I was just trying to be funny. Nothing personal.

I actually like a lot of the people here, which is why I am still here. I know I am an obnoxious jerk, I freely admit it, but I am a well read obnoxious jerk.

Are either of you concerned about the future of the USA? Do you like the path the US is currently on? Do you see anything the people can do to change our current path?

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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2008, 07:42:32 PM »

I hate people.

Your best post by far.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of you.

I don't think I want to know what it was before.
Do you really care?

Good point.

I was just trying to be funny. Nothing personal.

I actually like a lot of the people here, which is why I am still here. I know I am an obnoxious jerk, I freely admit it, but I am a well read obnoxious jerk.

Are either of you concerned about the future of the USA? Do you like the path the US is currently on? Do you see anything the people can do to change our current path?



Yes. No. No.
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain

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« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2008, 12:12:53 AM »

I hate people.

Your best post by far.

I may have to reevaluate my opinion of you.

I don't think I want to know what it was before.
Do you really care?

Good point.

I was just trying to be funny. Nothing personal.

I actually like a lot of the people here, which is why I am still here. I know I am an obnoxious jerk, I freely admit it, but I am a well read obnoxious jerk.

Are either of you concerned about the future of the USA? Do you like the path the US is currently on? Do you see anything the people can do to change our current path?



Yes. No. No.

Thank you for that inspirational reply.

I think you just killed my last shred of hope for the future of the USA.

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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2008, 12:19:32 AM »

Pond, in fairness to wigs, he has done many a post on current issues affecting USA especially on the subject of the encroachment of individual rights(eg smokers and others) by an increasing trend of laws to limit personal freedom or choice.

I don't always agree with wiggy but I would definately say he cares about USA, just as you do. Just different ways of showing it I suppose.

Wigs jokes around a lot but I wouldn't mistake that for apathy.

Just my two cents  Smiley
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The greatest tragedy is for a person to die with the music still within them.
bringbackwigs
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« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2008, 05:25:51 AM »

Pond, in fairness to wigs, he has done many a post on current issues affecting USA especially on the subject of the encroachment of individual rights(eg smokers and others) by an increasing trend of laws to limit personal freedom or choice.

I don't always agree with wiggy but I would definately say he cares about USA, just as you do. Just different ways of showing it I suppose.

Wigs jokes around a lot but I wouldn't mistake that for apathy.

Just my two cents  Smiley

You're my biggest apologist. Thank you.

And on this particular topic, I'm so burned out on smoking bans (get it?), that there's nothing left to say. On another forum I'm on, which isn't political and ten times the size of this, it's about 95% in favor with these kind of things. I've concluded that sometimes there's no point in fighting it.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2008, 07:44:35 AM »

On another forum I'm on, which isn't political and ten times the size of this, it's about 95% in favor with these kind of things. I've concluded that sometimes there's no point in fighting it.

Aren't you glad you have us then?

As for smoking bans, my parents like them... and they think I don't cause I like to be argumentative...

Roll Eyes

(I do like to be argumentative, but I'm very much a Libertarian, so I guess this stuff is kinda personal to me too, even though I don't actually smoke.)
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky

... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2008, 08:54:16 AM »

While the smoking ban is a great example of our dwindling liberties, at least it is the states that are abusing power and not the FEDGOV.

Medical marijuana is an example of the FEDGOV trampling states rights. 12 states have passed legislation legalizing medical marijuana, yet the FEDGOV won't allow it.

WHY?

What are they afraid of?

ALL THINKING PEOPLE know that marijuana is harmless when compared to many prescription drugs. Compared to ozycontin it is nothing.

What could the FEDGOV possibly be afraid of?

////////

In the 14 years I've worked in marijuana law reform, few events have struck me as so needlessly tragic as the federal government's consistent and deliberate stifling of medical cannabis research. Nowhere is the Fed's refusal to allow this science more overt and inhumane than as it pertains to the investigation of cannabinoids as anti-cancer agents, particularly in the treatment of gliomas.

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/86256/

FROM FOX News.......

 Cannabis may be bad for the lungs, but the active ingredient in marijuana may help combat lung cancer, new research suggests.

In lab and mouse studies, the compound, known as THC, cut lung tumor growth in half and helped prevent the cancer from spreading, says Anju Preet, PhD, a Harvard University researcher in Boston who tested the chemical.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266715,00.html

FROM SCIENCE DAILY...

They say this is the first set of experiments to show that the compound, Delta-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), inhibits EGF-induced growth and migration in epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) expressing non-small cell lung cancer cell lines. Lung cancers that over-express EGFR are usually highly aggressive and resistant to chemotherapy.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

Of course what is printed above is a LIE.

It is NOT the first study.

A study was done by the US government in 1974 and again in Madrid in

The term medical marijuana took on dramatic new meaning in February, 2000 when researchers in Madrid announced they had destroyed incurable brain tumors in rats by injecting them with THC, the active ingredient in cannabis.

The Madrid study marks only the second time that THC has been administered to tumor-bearing animals; the first was a Virginia investigation 26 years ago. In both studies, the THC shrank or destroyed tumors in a majority of the test subjects.


http://www.alternet.org/story/9257/

So, what is the government afraid of?

It appears they are afraid old people will live longer and collect more social security checks.
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Irwin
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« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2008, 12:12:18 PM »

While the smoking ban is a great example of our dwindling liberties, at least it is the states that are abusing power and not the FEDGOV.

Medical marijuana is an example of the FEDGOV trampling states rights. 12 states have passed legislation legalizing medical marijuana, yet the FEDGOV won't allow it.

WHY?

What are they afraid of?

ALL THINKING PEOPLE know that marijuana is harmless when compared to many prescription drugs. Compared to ozycontin it is nothing.

What could the FEDGOV possibly be afraid of?

////////

In the 14 years I've worked in marijuana law reform, few events have struck me as so needlessly tragic as the federal government's consistent and deliberate stifling of medical cannabis research. Nowhere is the Fed's refusal to allow this science more overt and inhumane than as it pertains to the investigation of cannabinoids as anti-cancer agents, particularly in the treatment of gliomas.

http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/86256/

FROM FOX News.......

 Cannabis may be bad for the lungs, but the active ingredient in marijuana may help combat lung cancer, new research suggests.

In lab and mouse studies, the compound, known as THC, cut lung tumor growth in half and helped prevent the cancer from spreading, says Anju Preet, PhD, a Harvard University researcher in Boston who tested the chemical.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266715,00.html

FROM SCIENCE DAILY...

They say this is the first set of experiments to show that the compound, Delta-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), inhibits EGF-induced growth and migration in epidermal growth factor receptor (EGFR) expressing non-small cell lung cancer cell lines. Lung cancers that over-express EGFR are usually highly aggressive and resistant to chemotherapy.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

Of course what is printed above is a LIE.

It is NOT the first study.

A study was done by the US government in 1974 and again in Madrid in

The term medical marijuana took on dramatic new meaning in February, 2000 when researchers in Madrid announced they had destroyed incurable brain tumors in rats by injecting them with THC, the active ingredient in cannabis.

The Madrid study marks only the second time that THC has been administered to tumor-bearing animals; the first was a Virginia investigation 26 years ago. In both studies, the THC shrank or destroyed tumors in a majority of the test subjects.


http://www.alternet.org/story/9257/

So, what is the government afraid of?

It appears they are afraid old people will live longer and collect more social security checks.

Bans on pot STARTED on the state level, just like prohibition and anti-smoking laws. Tyranny always starts on the local level here in America, once enough tyrannies are in enough localities, the the Federal level gets involved.

 "The first marijuana law found so far was a 1905 El Paso, Texas law. It, and most of the other laws in the southwest that followed, was motivated by racial prejudice against Mexican immigrants. These laws had nothing to do with the actual effects of the marijuana. In fact, cannabis in the form of hemp was a common crop in many of these states, and tinctures of cannabis were included in hundreds of common medicines. The purpose of the laws was to discriminate against Mexicans and other racial minorities. This same purpose is also found in the history of the laws against opiates and cocaine.

The first state law was a 1913 California law that received little notice. It was promoted by the pharmaceutical industry that saw marijuana as a competitor. That was followed by a 1914 Utah level that was simply a Mormon religious prohibition enacted into law. By 1930, about thirty states had passed laws against marijuana for one reason or another. In the southwest and south, it was primarily racial prejudice against Mexicans and other racial minorities. In the northern states it was primarily the fear that heroin addiction would lead to the use of marijuana -- exactly the opposite of the modern marijuana gateway myth."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_banned_marijuana

A full 7 years before the Federal ban, 30 states, a clear majority had banned pot. Prohibition began as a local tyranny, slavery, segregation and on and on.

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« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2008, 05:39:44 PM »

Irwin,

An excellent point.

Well done. The smoking ban is only the beginning of course. I doubt we will like this country very much if we are still around in 30 years.
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Jericoacoara
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« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2008, 05:54:15 PM »


You're my biggest apologist. Thank you.

And on this particular topic, I'm so burned out on smoking bans (get it?), that there's nothing left to say. On another forum I'm on, which isn't political and ten times the size of this, it's about 95% in favor with these kind of things. I've concluded that sometimes there's no point in fighting it.

Hey, no problem  Smiley

As soon as I read the topic, I knew that you and Abraxas wouldn't be pleased about it.
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The greatest tragedy is for a person to die with the music still within them.
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