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Author Topic: THE MAP!! - (the electoral one)  (Read 268 times)
Cass
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« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2008, 03:18:16 PM »

ROTFL, I would settle for just getting rid of Reaganite's namesakes so called "Reform" of 1986 or just raising the limit of $32,000 on which a senior couple then pays tax on their Social Security when other taxable income combined with half of their
Social Security reaches that massive limit.   Are there no other seniors who post on this forum. who get screwed each April 15th? 

Maybe Reaganite can explain where Dubya cut our taxes? They go up every year. It's just one more fallacy and GOP talking point. The economy is in the tank, but maybe Reaganite doesn't shop for groceries as he's much too busy explaining the cost of electing a Democrat with all those increased taxes.   

Then here I am barely past being a Newbie, but the "stuff" posted by those such as Reaganite, who claim to be against McCain, sure do sound somewhat disingenuous as they continue to damn Obama while spouting the same old GOP talking points, the
same ones I've heard since my first vote when I turned 21 before the voting age was changed to 18.  Roll Eyes
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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
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The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
Cass
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« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2008, 03:27:39 PM »

Some different maps. Maybe to add to the discussion?

http://www.americablog.com/search/label/electoral%20college

I think these are more interesting, but that's just my opinion.
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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator

The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
Quarken
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« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2008, 04:18:28 PM »

1) A Massachusetts style healthcare requirement (the most likely scenario) would cost taxpayers nothing.
I always forget you dont think as people that hire people as taxpayers... just for clarification who will it cost money? or do you think the dr's will start working for free?
The net costs will not increase a dime.  They will simply be spread more evenly across all participants.  Your flawed rationale that medical costs will somehow increase because people are required to get or be provided health insurance shows your fundamental misunderstanding of basic economics.

Quote from: Reaganite
Quote
2) Worst case scenario is a civil war in Iraq which will cause higher prices in the short term (not necessarily a bad thing), and a stable govt of one form or another in the long term.  Higher prices mean a greater incentive to get off oil, which is a good thing, IMO.
lol.. you think a stable government will emerge? So when Obama pulls out and there are video's on the news of Sunni's and Turks being murdered in the streets will he go back in?? (he said he would)
It will be inevitable, even if it is a dictatorial one.  There is not even a functional govt now, much less a stable one.  I am confident that violence in Iraq without us can be no worse than Iraq with us.  In fact, I am confident that we are only postponing the inevitable, thereby prolonging the violence that will only be resolved when we stop acting as their police & military force.

How, exactly, is staying in Iraq going to change the long term outcome?

Quote from: Reaganite
Quote
3) Saying Israel & Turkey will fall to Islam is the same fallacious argument used when we left Vietnam.  Japan, S. Korea, etc are no more communist than Israel & Turkey will become Islamic theocracies.
no.. not fall to islam but be attacked by islam in an attmpt to DESTROY them,,, "make isreal dissapear" they dont want to conquar isreal they want to destroy it.
They tried that already.  It's called the Arab-Israeli War, the Six-Day War, the Yom Kippur War, etc.  The Islamic countries failed every time.  What makes you think the results would be any different if we leave Iraq?

Quote from: Reaganite
Quote
4) Obama will be forced to deal with social security the same way any Republican will, by raising the retirement age & raising the cap on payroll taxes.  It will also be easier for him without having to fund being Iraq's military & police force.  It will also be easier by raising cap gains & top marginal rates. 
  ok so he will raise taxes..I get ya...
As opposed to continuing to debase the dollar by borrowing more foreign debt, yes.  It's called fiscal responsibility.

Quote from: Reaganite
Quote
Making Bush's tax cuts permanent while continuing to throw money down the Iraqi rat hole, and paying for unfunded SS benefits is a sure recipe for disaster a disaster such as we haven't seen since 1929.  That much debt would put the dollar on par with the peso & gas at $40/gallon after another four years of McBush.  But hey, maybe that's what we NEED to finally kill off free lunch supply side conservative policies.
ok so he will raise taxes on every american paying taxes.. (thats the result of letting the bush tax cuts expire as they gave cuts to EVERYONE that pays taxes)
I repeat this every time I have a discussion about taxes.  There is no such thing as a tax cut, only tax deferral.  Bush's "tax cuts" were not tax cuts at all, they were a deferral of debt to future tax payers at the expense of selling our future productivity to the Chinese & debasing the US Dollar (and American assets).

In 2002 the US Dollar was on par with the Euro.  If oil had switched to being priced in Euros instead of Dollars at that time, we would be paying $80/barrel instead of $130.  This is a direct result of deficit spending, and poor fiscal policy on the part of supply side conservatives.  The best way to turn the US into a third world country with triple digit or worse inflation rates is to continue to defer taxes, ignore unfunded future liabilities like social security, and remain the police & military force for a country half way around the world the size of California.

But why should we worry?  Now is the time to elect another free lunch supply sider to put the final nail in the coffin of right wingers once & for all!  All my debt is at a fixed rate; sux to be among the generation of Americans who are in the middle of grade school right now.
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Buy a toaster, get an investment bank for free.

My EV prediction:  Obama 273 - McCain 265
Wiglaf
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« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2008, 04:26:11 PM »

Nevada and New Mexico are trending more Democratic lately and with a  Democratic win in Ohio and PA(the Dem tilt this year should produce this).
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/interactives/campaign08/electoral-college/?dList=nh,ca,ct,de,il,mo,nj,ny,ore,ri,mi,wa,me1,me2,me0,md,wi,hi,ma,mn,oh,vt,dc&rList=ia,nv,sc,fl,al,ak,ar,wy,co,ga,nc,ok,pa,tn,ut,la,va,az,nd,tx,ms,ind,ne0,ne1,ne2,ne3,wv,ky,id,mt,nm,sd,ks&uList=
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight.
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Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2008, 06:31:00 PM »

Sorry no its not.. but if it were do you think running on a plan of RASIING taxes will work?  Who will pay for Obama's universal healthcare?

Who will pay for Obama's universal health care? Simple.

The top tier, who were given an unnecessary, unpaid for, irresponsible tax cut in 2001, and then another one in 2003. By reversing the cut on the top tier we can fund both Obama's health care initiative as well as a middle class tax cut.

(McCain doesn't want to do anything about health care, wants to make the tax cuts on the top tier permanent, and add a bunch of other tax cuts for the wealthy. But he doesn't want to fund the new G.I. Bill for our Iraq veterans).
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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