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Author Topic: West links drug war aid to Iranian nuclear impasse  (Read 274 times)
kactus
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« on: June 24, 2008, 09:09:40 AM »

This is absurd...

3,500 Iranian personnel have been killed in fighting drug smugglers in Afghanistan. Most of the drugs end up in Europe and the USA. Iran MUST ask for fair share of these operations or should make no attempt or even assist smugglers to export their deady merchendise to the West. It is absolutely maddness to have Iranian blood shed for the safety of the West.


Full article

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gJMIrzAC9Dw01J0mpOWszgsUt5cgD91GGM300
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mdma
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2008, 09:20:18 AM »

You are fucking absurd.
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notin
Ahkenaten
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008, 10:00:04 AM »

Quote
It is absolutely maddness to have Iranian blood shed for the safety of the West.

This is an incorrect assumption. Iran has entirely their own reasons for keeping the border secure of drug/arms runners and has been spending much effort in doing so for more decades. Your own source indicates this:

Quote
The efforts have taken their toll: More than 3,500 Iranian law enforcement officers have died in clashes with heavily armed drug traffickers over the last two decades, the Iranian government says.

So just leaving your statement at, "3,500 Iranian personnel have been killed in fighting drug smugglers in Afghanistan.", to try an extrapolate the incorrect notion that this has been happening only since the invasion of Afghanistan is more than a little dishonest. You obviously saw the "in the last two decades" part so why did you decide not to include that?

Your second assumption: that only the 'West' is using the drugs is also incorrect. Statistics for heroin use in Iran will either be non-existent or flawed, but there is plenty of statistical evidence to show the rising tide of heroin addicts in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria and Turkey.

Quote
Most of the drugs end up in Europe and the USA.

No. All indications show that less than 1% of the heroin produced in Afghanistan makes it to the US. The gross majority ends up in Europe after it has been picked from during it's cross-mid east/cross-Russia routes.

Did you read this part?
Quote
Iran has built a series of dikes and trenches along large portions of its roughly 560-mile border with Afghanistan to stop drug smugglers and has seized hundreds of tons of opium and heroin. Moghaddam said 900 tons of narcotics were seized last year, including what the U.N. estimated was 80 percent of total world opium seized.

Because if you do some research you'll find that the US helped pay for this infrastructure - which includes massive concrete barriers and bunkers. Perhaps that's why they're not chomping at the bit to donate more money through the UN.
EDIT: Actually Im having trouble finding data on this so I could be wrong.



Ahk
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 10:35:15 AM by Ahkenaten » Logged
Ahkenaten
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008, 10:20:58 AM »

More info:

"Heroin is only the Wests problem, not Iran's":
Quote
Iranian officials in Vienna acknowledge their country has at least 2 million
addicts - which spawns serious social problems. World health officials estimate that 67 percent of HIV cases in Iran stem from drug use.

http://www.embassyofafghanistan.org/inthenews/in110.html


On the Iran/Afghan border:
Quote
  In addition to deployment of operational regiments and over 30,000 anti-drug personnel along the eastern border areas, the physical barriers, as a complementary element, play a pivotal role in creating bottlenecks for drug traffickers. These include:

1. Construction of 212 border outposts,

2. Construction of 205 observation posts,

3. Establishment of 22 concrete barriers,

4. Construction of 290 km of canals (depth=4m, width=5m),

5. Construction of 659km of soil embankment,

6. Installment of 78km of barbed wire fences,

7. Construction of 2465km of asphalt and graveled roads,

8. Relocation of border villages previously used for drug trafficking and building new villages far from border areas.

http://www.ecodccu.org/English/coutry_profiles/iran/iran_DCP_2002.htm



Ahk
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 10:34:26 AM by Ahkenaten » Logged
Terry Mathis
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 11:46:38 AM »



Good job on the research Ahk...
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does !
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kactus
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 01:00:57 PM »

Quote from: Ahk
This is an incorrect assumption. Iran has entirely their own reasons for keeping the border secure of drug/arms runners and has been spending much effort in doing so for more decades. Your own source indicates this:

The efforts have taken their toll: More than 3,500 Iranian law enforcement officers have died in clashes with heavily armed drug traffickers over the last two decades, the Iranian government says.

So just leaving your statement at, "3,500 Iranian personnel have been killed in fighting drug smugglers in Afghanistan.", to try an extrapolate the incorrect notion that this has been happening only since the invasion of Afghanistan is more than a little dishonest. You obviously saw the "in the last two decades" part so why did you decide not to include that?

I did not extrapolate anything which suggested the 3,500 deaths was caused only since the invasion of Afghanistan. I did not specify time line for the death. My point which perhaps I did not make it clear here is whilst Iran has stopped vast quantities of opium and heroin reaching western Europe, the west including te US have set a condition for Iran halting their nuclear program in order to receive any help fighting afghan drug lords. I just fail to see the connection between the two.

Quote
Your second assumption: that only the 'West' is using the drugs is also incorrect. Statistics for heroin use in Iran will either be non-existent or flawed, but there is plenty of statistical evidence to show the rising tide of heroin addicts in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria and Turkey.

Sorry Ahk but according to the very article you posted here, which was very interesting to read btw it says:

Quote
Iranian officials in Vienna acknowledge their country has at least 2 million addicts - which spawns serious social problems. World health officials estimate that 67 percent of HIV cases in Iran stem from drug use.
http://www.embassyofafghanistan.org/inthenews/in110.html


I think it makes it quite clear that addiction in Iran is a serious problem which is partly due to proximity to Afghanistans' poppy seeds.


Here's what the other article you posted says:

Quote
Being a neighbor to Afghanistan, the Islamic Republic of Iran shoulders great deal of losses due to great influx of afghan refugees into Iran (more than 2 million), increasing trend of drug trafficking through Iranian territory, and existing poverty and unemployment among afghans that are the main factors contributing to the outbreak of crimes and acts of banditry and hostage-takings in Iran, which subsequently leads to the failure of national drug control programs.

Most of opium produced in Afghanistan is processed into heroin or morphine base at the joint border areas with Pakistan. Heroin and morphine hauls mainly find their way out of Afghanistan to Iran via Pakistan for onward transportation to Europe. Some quantities of afghan opium and cannabis are also smuggled into Iran, the bulk of which is transited to the Arabian littoral states of Persian Gulf.

http://www.ecodccu.org/English/coutry_profiles/iran/iran_DCP_2002.htm

Don't mean to be pedantic but these stats are quite clear as far as drugs or drug related issues are concerned. Don't you think?



Quote
No. All indications show that less than 1% of the heroin produced in Afghanistan makes it to the US. The gross majority ends up in Europe after it has been picked from during it's cross-mid east/cross-Russia routes.

Fair enough! Maybe not the route to US but certainly to western Europe as the article suggests.

Quote
Did you read this part?

Quote
Iran has built a series of dikes and trenches along large portions of its roughly 560-mile border with Afghanistan to stop drug smugglers and has seized hundreds of tons of opium and heroin. Moghaddam said 900 tons of narcotics were seized last year, including what the U.N. estimated was 80 percent of total world opium seized.


Quote
Because if you do some research you'll find that the US helped pay for this infrastructure - which includes massive concrete barriers and bunkers. Perhaps that's why they're not chomping at the bit to donate more money through the UN.
EDIT: Actually Im having trouble finding data on this so I could be wrong.

Sorry dude! I may have to disagree on this since after reading this. It suggests that it is Iran making this financial commitment as well as losses in personnel.

Quote
Despite the sever enforcement measures and establishment of various fortifications along 1975 km of our joint border with these to countries which has cost Iran over 1 billion US dollars, there is still no sign of diminishing in flow of illicit drug trafficking.

In addition to deployment of operational regiments and over 30,000 anti-drug personnel along the eastern border areas, the physical barriers, as a complementary element, play a pivotal role in creating bottlenecks for drug traffickers. These include:

1. Construction of 212 border outposts,
2. Construction of 205 observation posts,
3. Establishment of 22 concrete barriers,
4. Construction of 290 km of canals (depth=4m, width=5m),
5. Construction of 659km of soil embankment,
6. Installment of 78km of barbed wire fences,
7. Construction of 2465km of asphalt and graveled roads,
8. Relocation of border villages previously used for drug trafficking and building new villages far from border areas.

Further to more than 1 billion US dollars investment made for their construction. These fortifications also require maintenance costs each year.
http://www.ecodccu.org/English/coutry_profiles/iran/iran_DCP_2002.htm
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 01:36:49 PM by kactus » Logged
Ahkenaten
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 02:32:36 PM »

Quote from: Kactus
My point which perhaps I did not make it clear here is whilst Iran has stopped vast quantities of opium and heroin reaching western Europe, the west including te US have set a condition for Iran halting their nuclear program in order to receive any help fighting afghan drug lords. I just fail to see the connection between the two.

I agree with you there.

Quote from: Kactus
Quote from: Ahk
Your second assumption: that only the 'West' is using the drugs is also incorrect. Statistics for heroin use in Iran will either be non-existent or flawed, but there is plenty of statistical evidence to show the rising tide of heroin addicts in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria and Turkey.
Sorry Ahk but according to the very article you posted here, which was very interesting to read btw it says:

Quote
Iranian officials in Vienna acknowledge their country has at least 2 million addicts - which spawns serious social problems. World health officials estimate that 67 percent of HIV cases in Iran stem from drug use.
http://www.embassyofafghanistan.org/inthenews/in110.html


I think it makes it quite clear that addiction in Iran is a serious problem which is partly due to proximity to Afghanistans' poppy seeds.

Well that's my point. (you should remember they have a good proximity to Turkey too which was one of the big heron suppliers during the '60-'70's). It just seemed to me when you said;

Quote from: Kactus
Most of the drugs end up in Europe and the USA. Iran MUST ask for fair share of these operations or should make no attempt or even assist smugglers to export their deady merchendise to the West. It is absolutely maddness to have Iranian blood shed for the safety of the West.

...It just sounds like you're suggesting Iran has no real reason to go through this effort except to help the West. It does help the West but they have their own reasons as well -- which was my point: The drugs do not only effect the West.


Quote
Sorry dude! I may have to disagree on this since after reading this. It suggests that it is Iran making this financial commitment as well as losses in personnel.

Did you mean to say it suggests Iran isn't making this financial commitment..."? Because we both agree on the 1B US$ they spent. The article is one I presented I did read it Smiley -- and as it points out there's a heavy maintenance cost as well.



On a side note: it is interesting isn't it, that no matter who the players are or where in the world it is or even how severe the punishments when you have a drug industry worth millions or billions (depending on who you are) and no matter how much you spend on the border security the drugs still make it through. Doesn't matter if it's the US or South Africa or Iran. When the money is this high the low to mid level corruption is guaranteed. A given.


Ahk

« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 02:41:04 PM by Ahkenaten » Logged
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