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Author Topic: U.S. Cites Big Gains Against Al-Qaeda  (Read 1713 times)
Cass
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« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2008, 01:51:29 PM »

Well that was an interesting experience. Post after post flagged as spam. LOL, has Charlie gained control of the spam flagger? Grin

Maybe at some point they'll show up again, but as multiple posts. Later, too much time wasted so far with a Bush Pentagon sycophant. 


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CharlesMartel
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« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2008, 03:24:31 PM »

Control of what?
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Cass
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« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2008, 04:10:30 PM »

No sense of humor Charlie is rather obvious, sorry if that one went right over your head.  Actually, I was posting and continued to get the spam flagger, even when there was nothing to flag. One suggestion I was making to Fred, was he should explore more and read on some U.S. sites, such as this one who hires Iraqis to report from their bureaus there for a different perspective. I feel confident that neither you or Fred have ever been to Iraq, nor have I, but as most forum participants do, pick and choose from sources that fit their views.

From McClatchy today.  Maybe you can attempt to read the full article instead of quickly choosing a single sentence that fits your purpose. Pros and cons about Iraq are here with the
full article on the link.

Does a calmer Iraq mean that U.S. troops can come home?

Mike Tharp | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: June 08, 2008 01:30:15 PM

BAGHDAD — After weeks of relative calm, two questions are being asked in war-torn Iraq and in the United States:

Will it last? And when can American forces start coming home?

Real peace, of course, has hardly broken out, and the improved security environment may be fleeting. But recent substantial gains by the Iraqi army, flagging insurgent violence and civilians reclaiming a sense of confidence have produced expectations that are higher than at any time since 2003.

It's increasingly reasonable to assume that Iraq's security environment will continue to improve — slowly, maybe at the margins and with the chance that things could go south fast.

Generals and politicians avoid responding directly to questions about troop withdrawals because an answer would determine whether America stays here indefinitely as an occupier or leaves in a way yet to be decided. Indeed, many Iraqis believe that the Status of Forces Agreement being negotiated with Washington is a pretext to allow a permanent U.S. military presence, a charge that American officials deny. The agreement would establish a continued U.S. presence in Iraq once the United Nations' permissions expire Dec. 31.


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/v-print/story/40152.html
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Cass
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« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2008, 08:04:23 PM »

Is Afghanistan considered Middle Eastern?  If so it didn't look all that great today.  Once again Little Laura the Librarian goes shopping in Kabul. Wonder what she goes there to buy?
Maybe Dubya likes her all donned up in those lovely blue burghas?  But the news today show more loss by the Brits. So Laura goes shopping, in Kabul with "Mayor Karzai, but troops
continue to die.  How really dead is the Taliban outside of Kabul?  Daily life in the ever peaceful Afghanistan, where the poppies still rule.

Pardon copy and paste, it's from my start page and a iink discloses personal info.

British military: 3 soldiers killed in Afghanistan
June 08, 2008 5:25 PM EDT
KABUL, Afghanistan - Three British soldiers were killed in a suicide attack and a local reporter for the BBC was found dead Sunday as first lady Laura Bush visited Afghanistan hoping to highlight signs of progress despite a recent surge of violence.

The soldiers were killed in a suicide bombing while on foot patrol less than a mile from their base in Afghanistan's Upper Sangin Valley, the British military said. A fourth soldier was wounded. The deaths brought the British military's death toll in Afghanistan to 100 since the 2001 invasion by the U.S. and its allies.

The head of Britain's armed forces, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, and Defense Secretary Des Browne released a joint statement expressing their condolences - and insisting their forces were beating back the insurgent threat.

"Make no mistake, the Taliban influence is waning, and through British blood, determination and grit, a window of opportunity has been opened," Stirrup said.

Thousands of new troops have poured into Afghanistan to try to stabilize the country, and fighting has been fierce in Helmand, the insurgent stronghold where British forces are deployed.

As of Saturday, at least 443 members of the U.S. military had died in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Uzbekistan as a result of the U.S. invasion that toppled the ruling Taliban.

Last year saw a record level of violence, with more than 8,000 people killed in insurgency-related attacks - the most since the 2001 invasion. Violence has claimed more than 1,500 lives this year.

On Sunday, insurgents attacked a police convoy in Ghazni province, killing 11 police and wounding one, said the province's deputy governor, Kazim Allayar.

In the past two years militant fighters have stepped up attacks on Afghanistan's fledgling police, who have little training or weapons. Last year more than 900 police were killed in militant attacks.

Journalists, too, have faced grave danger from Taliban militants and local strongmen unhappy with negative news coverage amid the increase in violence. The British Broadcasting Corp. said one of its reporters, Abdul Samad Rohani, was found with a gun shot wound to the head in a cemetery on Sunday. He went missing in the town of Lashkar Gar in Helmand province the previous day.

Rohani worked for the BBC World Service's Pashto language service. BBC world news editor Jon Williams called his death "a terrible loss."

"Rohani's courage and dedication have been a key part of the BBC's reporting from Afghanistan in recent years. His bravery - and that of his colleagues - have allowed us to tell a key story for audiences in the U.K., in Afghanistan and around the world," Williams said in a statement from London.

The Helmand provincial police chief, Mohammad Hussein Andiwal, said officials were investigating the death and had not named any suspects.

Taliban insurgents have kidnapped and killed Afghan journalists in recent years, but a spokesman for the militants, Qari Yousef Ahmadi, said the Taliban was not behind the Rohani's killing. Ahmadi said that the Taliban did not have any problem with Rohani's reporting and that he was upset about the reporter's death.

Rohani was at least the fourth journalist killed in Afghanistan in the past year.

He was the second journalist working for the BBC to found dead during the past weekend, after gunmen in southern Somalia killed local reporter Nasteex Dahir Farah, who also contributed to other news organizations including The Associated Press.

Also Sunday, militants ambushed the government leader of the Qalandar region in the eastern province of Khost, killing him and three bodyguards, said Gen. Mohammad Ayub, the provincial police chief.

A bomb exploded about 150 yards from a U.N. office in the same province and wounded two people. Ayub said a man carrying the explosives intended to put them under a bridge but they detonated early. The attacker survived but was hospitalized and in serious condition. A woman passing by was wounded.

---

Associated Press writers Raphael G. Satter and David Stringer in London and Noor Khan in Kandahar, Afghanistan, contributed to this report.



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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2008, 06:40:25 AM »

Quote from: Chucky
Additionally, you've not addressed the topic yet, are we seeing gains against al-Qaeda or not?

Yes I have. You'll have to go back and read through the responses I made to the adults on this thread.

Quote
Then I won't expect another horrible milk analogy as any of my "type" sees right thru it and exposes it for what it is. An error.

Actually Chucky, when you decided to argue on the basis of Iraq and only Iraq the analogy was valid and you couldn't explain why it wasn't. You said yourself: "Iraq was a clean floor before the invasion" -- clearly signaling that you were willing to argue the point based only on Iraq. And your "see through" on that point was pathetic, because "yes" essentially Iraq was clean of al Qaeda in the beginning. As soon as that failed you, you decided to take it back to international scale and in fact you're the one who needed to "deflect" from the argument (isolated to Iraq) as soon as it turned out poorly for you.

You twist with every post. Now you call the "error", which was a simple misreading of the thread title, to an "error" in my analogy - which you were unable to dispute. Is that your signal now that you're ready to take that on again? Tell me more about the huge "al Qaeda" problem directly after the invasion?

Also if you meant internationally and not isolated to Iraq then what was your meaning with this:
Quote
Clearly, the surge has resulted in an overall strengthening of the Iraqi military and weakened al-Qaeda not to mention severely weakening al-Sadr and Iran.

Obviously by "surge" you intend to argue that the surge has given gains against al qaeda -- so obviously you meant Iraq. What was that? An "error"? So obviously you do mean to imply that a gain against al qaeda in Iraq means a gain against al Qaeda in general internationally. So my point stands: please explain how, based only on the surge in Iraq, and considering that Iraq went from zero al Qaeda to "lots' of al qaeda and back to 'less' al qaeda represents a 'gain' overall internationally? Use math.

An of course you'd like to give the credit to Bush but even the article (and the CIA) state:
Quote
"On balance, we are doing pretty well," he said, ticking down a list of accomplishments: "Near strategic defeat of al-Qaeda in Iraq. Near strategic defeat for al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia. Significant setbacks for al-Qaeda globally -- and here I'm going to use the word 'ideologically' -- as a lot of the Islamic world pushes back on their form of Islam," he said

...so in other words he's guessing. Did you read your own article before posting it as a talking point?

Everyone knows as soon as they see a poster that is posting for "his audience" because he does not speak to you directly but simply twists whenever he can based on the false notion that people are only reading the last post in a debate between two people. Put another way: you're a poser.






Ahk
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 07:11:42 AM by Ahkenaten » Logged
CharlesMartel
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« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2008, 07:31:07 AM »

Yes I have. You'll have to go back and read through the responses I made to the adults on this thread.

We've already established those were off base and in error. Care to re-address?

Quote
Actually Chucky, when you decided to argue on the basis of Iraq and only Iraq the analogy was valid and you couldn't explain why it wasn't.


Not only did I address the Iraq only argument, I went on explaining exactly why your analogy was in error. You then went catatonic claiming your deflection to Iraq only was the original thread topic. I pointed out your error there as well.

Quote
Tell me more about the huge "al Qaeda" problem directly after the invasion?


I never told you this to begin with, how could I tell you more? You're confusing the issues and not enjoying your error-prone argument getting stomped on. Sorry, I just call em as I see em, if you were offended by getting corrected you have my sincere condolences.

Quote
Further, if you meant internationally and not isolated to Iraq, why does your original posted article base "gains on al Qaeda' as isolated to Iraq?


What? I even used two different quotes in each of the first two posts when creating this thread that weren't isolated to Iraq. Again, my point is global and includes Iraq, it doesn't isolate Iraq. You're simply wrong.

Quote
Also if you meant internationally and not isolated to Iraq

Are you actually going to read the first two posts or not?

 
Quote
Clearly, the surge has resulted in an overall strengthening of the Iraqi military and weakened al-Qaeda not to mention severely weakening al-Sadr and Iran.

The surge occurred after an organized and deadly al-Qaeda came to Iraq to attack American forces after an election in Iraq and government organization that started to look successful. My statement above is dead on balls accurate. Smiley

Quote
Obviously by "surge" you intend to argue that the surge has given gains against al qaeda -- so obviously you meant Iraq. What was that? An "error"?

My argument INCLUDES Iraq but is not limited to Iraq as you mistakenly assumed as you hadn't read my first two posts creating this thread. In fact, I'm asserting you STILL haven't read the first two defning posts, otherwise, I wouldn't be answering the same silly questions from you.

Quote
...so in other words he's guessing. Did you read your own article before posting it as a talking point?

He's guessing? I vehemently disagree there, he mentions several details. Read the articles, A, then we'll discuss.

Quote
you're a poser.

You're entitled to your opinions that mean little to me. Fact is, I see error and I leap on it. You're not enjoying that, other members probably allow your errors and mistakes to slide by. You'll find I won't follow that policy.
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Fredledingue
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« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2008, 10:47:41 AM »

Cass,
Under "Middle East", we understand Israel/Palestine (of course), Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran and all the countries in between, al-Qaida and the War on Terror.
So when news are related to the WoT they fit here.

HTH
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Cass
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« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2008, 11:04:35 AM »

Thank you Fred for your response. While I've always considered the so-called WOT little more than a slogan for a concept war, not that different than the earlier ones, like the "War On
Poverty" and the one on "Drugs" both LOL, clearly lost in the U.S.. Perhaps some continue to be confused about the geographical locations and include the occupation of Afghanistan
in the ME: the reason for my question.  It has been interesting over the years to watch and listen to the disingenuous statements made by the White House and the Pentagon, while claiming there is no "crusade" against Muslims to in contrast claim the so-called "war on Islamo-fascism."  Language does become very fascinating in how it's used does it not?

In any case I appreciate your response and clarification.  Cass
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CharlesMartel
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« Reply #53 on: June 19, 2008, 01:19:51 PM »

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSISL17666120080619

More reality to snuff out the error prone rhetoric.
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #54 on: June 19, 2008, 01:39:30 PM »

Quote
What? I even used two different quotes in each of the first two posts when creating this thread that weren't isolated to Iraq. Again, my point is global and includes Iraq, it doesn't isolate Iraq. You're simply wrong.


No you are wrong. You don't know what you're talking about, and ya don't know what you're saying from one minute to the next. All I'm saying is that after reading this, your first post:

Quote

Clearly, the surge has resulted in an overall strengthening of the Iraqi military and weakened al-Qaeda not to mention severely weakening al-Sadr and Iran.

I had every right to think you were talking only about Iraq. You also went on to argue only on the basis of Iraq. When I admitted my mistake or said that I agreed that world wide it's harder to tell you acted like only a snotty-ass shit with a name like Charles would.

Quote
We've already established those were off base and in error. Care to re-address?

No, mouth. They were completely on base and without error. The article you posted talks only about Iraq, because al Qaeda influence in Iraq is all that can be measured. The surge only speaks of Iraq as well, so in context of only Iraq my comments were bang on, and we've already established that it was easy to figure that's what you were talking about. It wasn't until someone else brought up the situation world wide that you began to argue on that basis.

Further you go on to argue only on the basis of Iraq until you LOST and then decided it was world wide. Well there's no data availible for world wide is there? And the article you posted wasn't about world wide either, so why not quit pretending everyone else is stupid, quit mouthing off and try growing up, mouth? You're the one using the magic 8-ball to tells us all the exact level of global al qaeda power...lol.

Quote
My argument INCLUDES Iraq but is not limited to Iraq as you mistakenly assumed

What assumption? It's plain english dude. You mention Iraq and the surge and that's all folks. If you wanna be fucking understood start making some fucking sense, tea-bagger, or at least lose the bullshit know-it-all attitude and admit your one sentence is vague if you meant world wide.


Ahk


« Last Edit: June 19, 2008, 01:52:39 PM by Ahkenaten » Logged
Wiglaf
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« Reply #55 on: June 19, 2008, 05:09:54 PM »

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSISL17666120080619

More reality to snuff out the error prone rhetoric.
Note that it was a recapture of an area.  Last I heard trading areas back and forth wasn't exactly inexorable progress for our side as indicated by this line from the second page of the article you cited: Security has deteriorated despite the presence of about 60,000 foreign troops and about 150,000 government troops.
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CharlesMartel
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« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2008, 11:49:43 AM »

No you are wrong. You don't know what you're talking about, and ya don't know what you're saying from one minute to the next. All I'm saying is that after reading this, your first post

I know exactly what I'm talking about, the forum includes many links(including one prior to this unexplainable post from you), my points well researched.....and torching your unprepared and wrong argument. You thought we were restricted to Iraq, the post JUST PRIOR to this from ME concernes Afghanistan. You'll want to keep up, A, I'm lightening quick and dead on balls accurate.

Quote
I had every right to think you were talking only about Iraq.

Correct, you have every right to be dead wrong. 

Quote
When I admitted my mistake or said that I agreed that world wide it's harder to tell you acted like only a snotty-ass shit with a name like Charles would.


A name like Charles? It's been the name of Kings and Senators and Statesmen and men who have made serious impacts on history. And a "snotty-ass shit"....that your intellectual opinion is it? F'n please, let's realize your little stick and stone tantrums mean nothing and discuss topics. Agreed?

Quote
You mention Iraq and the surge and that's all folks.

Read the link I JUST provided prior to this nonsense from you and...just to mop up any confusion that still remains...I'll provide another from AFGHANISTAN proving my point. Again.

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSISL23934620080620?sp=true

Now, your argument belongs in the ashtray directly in front of you, got anything else?

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CharlesMartel
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« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2008, 11:59:05 AM »

You mention Iraq and the surge and that's all folks.

Btw, my last link was the 5th such link I've provided since starting this thread. The first two concerned big gains against al-Qaeda GLOBALLY and included Iraq. The last three concern Afghanistan and Pakistan and don't concern Iraq.

Your arguments, A, are so easily overcome and then dismissed. And then I get to hear you cursing at me as if that's gonna change the fact that you're wrong. There are global 'big gains' happening as we speak. The fact that you cannot admit this and instead focus on my argument and foul language I find odd.
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