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Author Topic: John McCain, Fiscal Terrorist  (Read 1627 times)
Abraxas
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« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2008, 02:03:42 PM »

Clinton was willing to consider a hybrid system with the Republican Leadership of government and privitization... but the Lewinsky thing kinda mucked that attempt up.

Basically, limited privitization isn't and never was an entirely bad idea.

Personally, I'm going to make every effort to make sure whatever (if any) SS payments I get will be a bonus. I'm not going to get screwed out of my retirement because my parents' generation fucked up (no offense to you guys).
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« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2008, 03:22:39 PM »

I was promised

Quite simply, the govt had no business "promising" a retirement & medical coverage for every person over 65 no matter what their means with no plan to address longevity, cost, or burden placed on an ever decreasing ratio of working participants.  If you really think the govt owes you something just because they made a misguided promise following one of the greatest periods of financial uncertainty in at least the last century, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

This doesn't mean that privatization is anything more than a thinly veiled poison pill with the real intent of forcing an end to a program for those who truly need it as well as those who don't.  That doesn't mean that social security, in some artificial budgetary isolation, isn't solvent for the foreseeable future.  That also doesn't mean that a budget consumed by medicare/medicade entitlements will be able to afford any entitlements at all including SS.  That also, finally, doesn't mean that, even if we could afford all these entitlements, that we should provide them to those people who can easily work and/or live comfortably off of their own savings by taxing the ever dwindling ratio of those who still work.

Today's entitlement system is a well intentioned, but very broken & underfunded system that will likely never be fixed until it is too late to save any part of it including SS.  Short sighted, and easily manipulated, voters will simply continue to vote in more entitlements, greater tax cuts, and scream, holler, and stamp their feet about what "promises" they feel the govt owes them until the economy collapses under the weight of ever increasing demands, debt & currency debasement.

The greatest threats to free, wealthy, nations is the hubris of foreign military interventionalism, and the creeping "promises" of bloated entitlements ... in that order.


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« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 05:43:46 PM by Quarken » Logged

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« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2008, 06:18:51 PM »

I think the people, acting though their government, have every right to enact programs that promise security in people's later years, and also universal health insurance.

Here is a very informative chart showing the relative impact of the three biggest social programs in America. The fourth is the interest we're paying on the Republican's debt that all their tax cuts for their rich friends have cost us.

As you can see, health care towers over Social Security. This proves to me that the crisis is realy in health care, not in Social Security. Universal health insurance is needed, and needed now.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 06:23:16 PM by jpn of Seattle » Logged

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« Reply #93 on: June 24, 2008, 06:35:25 PM »

I was promised

Quite simply, the govt had no business "promising" a retirement & medical coverage for every person over 65 no matter what their means with no plan to address longevity, cost, or burden placed on an ever decreasing ratio of working participants.  If you really think the govt owes you something just because they made a misguided promise following one of the greatest periods of financial uncertainty in at least the last century, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.
I'm not positive, but it might be because of his military service that he says 'i was promised'.
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« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2008, 06:03:07 AM »

I think the people, acting though their government, have every right to enact programs that promise security in people's later years, and also universal health insurance.

I'm not arguing whether citizens have the right.  There is no question there.  If people wanted a complete socialism, they have the right to enact that, too.  I am arguing the wisdom of ever greater under funded entitlements, and the impact on our long term economy.  I think the risks are clear.  I am also arguing the wisdom of a retirement for every person over 65 with little regard to life expectancy or the means of people wealthy enough to care for themselves.  I am arguing the wisdom of doing this by relying on a shrinking working class. 

Maybe we could provide universal health care and balance the budget through reasonable SS & defense cuts, and modest tax increases?  I don't want to trample anyone's "rights," but I would also like to see a reasonable entitlement program when I get old enough to retire.  The business as usual model of run away medicare/medicade & deficit spending paid for by borrowing from SS ensure that I will not.
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« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2008, 08:31:45 AM »

Ok so medicare and medicaid which gives health care to retired and poor people is the biggest entitlement cost and you solution to it is COVER EVERYONE with it....

BRILLIANT!!!

I know I know you want companies to pay for it though right?  So you want companies to absord the full cost of covering everyone in the country AND still pay a living wage and also provide retirement accounts and such...

Nice...
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« Reply #96 on: June 26, 2008, 07:36:55 PM »

No, we should all pay for universal health insurance through taxes. We shouldn't stick private industry with the bill, which to some degree is what's happening right now.

By adopting universal health insurance, we'll pay far less per capita while covering everyone. This will hugely benefit business, which right now is trying to either cover their workers at the risk of going out of business, or cutting their workers adrift to fend for themselves in an environment not friendly to middle-aged citizens suddenly needing health insurance.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 07:39:07 PM by jpn of Seattle » Logged

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« Reply #97 on: June 26, 2008, 07:44:33 PM »

Does this government insurance pay at a lower rate like Medicare (that some Doctors refuse to take)?....Are you going to force Doctors to accept this "lower rated insurance".....or will it pay what private isurance pays?

I see alot opting out.
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