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Author Topic: Free Tibet! Not....  (Read 3107 times)
Wiglaf
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« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2008, 08:19:40 PM »


Yes.  It was not a war crime because it SAVED more lives than it cost.  It was not a war crime because the Japanese refused to surrender and there's no use expending 1.2 million American lives when the loss of 200,000 Japanese ones will do the same thing.  It was gruesome.  Not a war crime.


What about:

US backing of chiles pinochet. 
US backing of soeharto - more than 500,000 people killed
US in vietnam - 1 million vietnamese killed
US conquering of north america - 10 million people killed
US backing genocide of natives in south american countries
That's right.  If your nation did it, it was just flawed and a misunderstood mistake.  If ours did it was evil and inherent in our nature.   Tongue  One can list incidents of Chinese atrocities too, but what does it prove.  I freely acknowledge our nation's culpability in these cases and others, except for the Latin American one (prove it happened), yet you treat Mao, a sadistic dictator who makes Russia's Ivan the Terrible seem mild by comparison, as merely misunderstood.  As evil as a leader who directs brutality at other peoples is, more evil still is one who directs a nation to eat its own.
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight.
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Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it.
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Europe
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« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2008, 01:10:02 PM »

You spineless little liar. Now lets sum up your lies in this thread so far:

1. You lied when you said you have never denied that some of the responsible of the crimes of the cultural revolution have been tried and punished.

2. You continue to lie when you now suddenly again claim that noone has been tried and punished. Even an idiot like you should understand the following simple sentences
(snippet ouf of wikipedia this time):
The Gang of Four was an extreme left-wing political group of Communist Party of China leaders in the People's Republic of China, led by Madame Mao Jiang Qing, who were arrested and removed from their positions in 1976, following the death of Mao Zedong, and  were primarily blamed for the events of the Cultural Revolution.

3. You lied when you said that I have labelled the current chinese government as criminals. Such statements are for morons like you and Jim McCafferty, don't try and ascribe those to me, idiot.


4. You continue to lie when you say that the geneva convention does not prohibit the use of nuclear weapons against civilians.  A nuclear weapon is incapable of distinguishing between civilians and military targets, and is therefore by definition illegal  to use according to international law. The use of nuclear weapons has been ruled to be against the following International laws and conventions:

* Declaration of St. Petersburg, 1868, because unnecessary suffering would be caused and there would be no avoidance or minimising of incidental loss of civilian life; Hague Convention, 1907, because unnecessary suffering would be caused and there would be no guarantee of the inviolability of neutral nations;
* Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948, because long-lasting radioactive contamination would interfere with innocent people's right to life and health;
* Geneva Conventions, 1949, because protection of the wounded, sick, the infirm, expectant mothers, civilian hospitals and health workers would not be ensured;
* The Protocols Additional to the Geneva Conventions, 1977, because there would be massive incidental losses of civilian lives and widespread, long-term and severe damage to the environment.

The Geneva Convention Protocol 1977 prohibits attacks on civilians and methods of warfare which are intended,  or may be anticipated, to cause widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment. (Article 35)

Thus the use of nuclear weapons agains civilians is clearly against the Geneva conventions of 1949 as well as 1977.

5. You lied when you say the geneva convention exclusively deals with the treatment of prisoners of war.

6. You lie when you say the use of terror bombing strategies against civilians does not constitue a war crime.

You can't win this argument by more lies - you will just continue to redicule yourself unless you try and educate yourself a bit before posting.  In fact It seems you actually seems to have lied enough by now to actually believe your own lies - ROFL.

You have also proven yourself too clueless to spend 30 seconds googling on the Geneva conventions.
A 10-year old with normal brain function could have found out that there is indeed 4 geneva conventions
and a number of amendments, of which only ONE deals exclusively with prisoners of war. Apparently you only knew about that one and therefore hope to score a cheap point in the debate, by your moronic going after this issue.  Kind fun to whip that back on the little lying bitch you are ... Thanks for the entertainment.



ROFL - you must be the most retarded idiot I ever debated with .... Are you on crack ?  Grin

I already caught you lying once in this thread.

False.  You are the liar.  You lied about the Chinese government prosecuting the awful crimes perpetrated upon the Chinese people by Mao.  You posted an article about a political revenge trial as proof that people were held to task for their roles in killing millions of people.

You are a farce.

As to the Geneva Convention:  IT'S YOUR CONTENTION.  NOT MINE.  PROVE YOUR WORDS.  POST THE ARTICLE AND QUOTE THE SECTION OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION THAT PROHIBITS THE USE OF ATOMIC WEAPONS.  YOU'RE THE ONE WHO STATED IT.  NOT ME.  PROVE UP YOUR OWN LYING WORDS.  YOU'RE FAILURE TO DO SO IS PROOF ENOUGH OF YOUR CONTINUED LIES.
I already caught you lying once in this thread.

False.  You are the liar.  You lied about the Chinese government prosecuting the awful crimes perpetrated upon the Chinese people by Mao.  You posted an article about a political revenge trial as proof that people were held to task for their roles in killing millions of people.

You are a farce.

As to the Geneva Convention:  IT'S YOUR CONTENTION.  NOT MINE.  PROVE YOUR WORDS.  POST THE ARTICLE AND QUOTE THE SECTION OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION THAT PROHIBITS THE USE OF ATOMIC WEAPONS.  YOU'RE THE ONE WHO STATED IT.  NOT ME.  PROVE UP YOUR OWN LYING WORDS.  YOU'RE FAILURE TO DO SO IS PROOF ENOUGH OF YOUR CONTINUED LIES.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2008, 01:24:02 PM by Europe » Logged
Europe
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« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2008, 01:21:16 PM »

I condemn attacks on civilians and other war crimes regardless of they are being carried out by the  Palestinians, Israeli's or the US.

Is that enough  ?

Military strikes against civilians is a war crime - get it ?
So where are your outcries against rockets fired into Israel that target civilian populations?
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cauboi
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« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2008, 05:22:31 AM »

I condemn attacks on civilians and other war crimes regardless of they are being carried out by the  Palestinians, Israeli's or the US.

Is that enough  ?

Military strikes against civilians is a war crime - get it ?
So where are your outcries against rockets fired into Israel that target civilian populations?


What about attack on civilians on Tianmen Square?
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Europe
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« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2008, 05:44:11 AM »



What about attack on civilians on Tianmen Square?

I condemn that as well. Grin.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2008, 06:36:19 AM by Europe » Logged
cauboi
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« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2008, 07:57:44 AM »



What about attack on civilians on Tianmen Square?

I condemn that as well. Grin.


I guess you condemn attack on Tibet ethnic civilians as well ?
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Europe
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« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2008, 08:20:43 AM »

What attacks on ethnic tibetan civilians ?   

I guess you condemn attack on Tibet ethnic civilians as well ?
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cauboi
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« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2008, 10:11:16 AM »

What attacks on ethnic tibetan civilians ?   

I guess you condemn attack on Tibet ethnic civilians as well ?

.....Whatever.....

as we say: "Have a nice day"  Smiley stay cool and eat lots of cheese  angel
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2008, 08:22:31 AM »

Are you just stupid?  Or do you lie to cover up your stupidity?  For God's sake man, do you even bother to read what you cite??  After this post, I'm done with you're lying posts.

Let's look at your unending garbage:

You spineless little liar. Now lets sum up your lies in this thread so far:

1. You lied when you said you have never denied that some of the responsible of the crimes of the cultural revolution have been tried and punished.

2. You continue to lie when you now suddenly again claim that noone has been tried and punished. Even an idiot like you should understand the following simple sentences
(snippet ouf of wikipedia this time):
The Gang of Four was an extreme left-wing political group of Communist Party of China leaders in the People's Republic of China, led by Madame Mao Jiang Qing, who were arrested and removed from their positions in 1976, following the death of Mao Zedong, and  were primarily blamed for the events of the Cultural Revolution.


You stupid bastard.  Did you read the article?  The weren't arrested and tried for causing the deaths of tens of millions of people -- they were arrested and tried as political payback for being on the losing side of political contest for power within the ruling dictatorship.  Since I've already embarrassed you by citing your sources, you'll be used to being bitchslapped yet again when I cite the exact same source that contradicts what you claim it purports to say:

Quote
It is now officially claimed by the Chinese communist party that Mao in his last year turned against Jiang Qing and her associates, and that after his death on 9 September 1976, they attempted to seize power (the same allegation made against Lin Biao in 1971). Even decades later, it is impossible to know the full truth of these events.

It does appear that their influence was in decline before Mao's death: when Zhou Enlai died in January 1976, he was succeeded not by one of the radicals but by the unknown Hua Guofeng. In April 1976, Hua was officially appointed Premier of the State Council. Upon Mao's death Hua was named Communist Party chairman as well.

The "Gang" had arranged for Deng Xiaoping's purge in April 1976 (however, he would return and by 1978 become the real power of the Party). They hoped that the key military leaders Wang Dongxing and Chen Xilian would support them, but it seems that Hua won the Army over to his side. On 6 October 1976, Hua had the four leading radicals and a number of their lesser associates arrested. A massive media campaign was then launched against them, dubbing them the Gang of Four and blaming them for all the excesses of the Cultural Revolution.

You stupid dolt.  It was a political purge.  Nothing more.  Your own sources confirm that.  You are a liar.  Again.

3. You lied when you said that I have labelled the current chinese government as criminals. Such statements are for morons like you and Jim McCafferty, don't try and ascribe those to me, idiot.

Because slaughtering thousands of people in the street in Tiananmen Square is such a noble thing to do.


4. You continue to lie when you say that the geneva convention does not prohibit the use of nuclear weapons against civilians.  A nuclear weapon is incapable of distinguishing between civilians and military targets, and is therefore by definition illegal  to use according to international law.

NO, you dim-witted knuckle-dragging troglodyte.  You claimed it was in contravention to the Geneva Conventions.

A claim you still have not proven.

Since you are obvious quite dim, I will explain this to you.  You claimed X.  I dispute your claim.  It is not my obligation to prove it up.  You have the obligation to cite the text within the Geneva Convention that bans the use of military weapons.  Cite the exact chapter and section. 

But you can't.  That's why you dodge.  It's why you continue to sidestep.  It's why you fail.

Because the Geneva Conventions do not prohibit the use of the atomic bombs, as in Japan.

You fail.  And you only compound you're many, explicit failures by lying over the top of them.  You're a poor logiciain; and a worse advocate.


The use of nuclear weapons has been ruled to be against the following International laws and conventions:

* Declaration of St. Petersburg, 1868, because unnecessary suffering would be caused and there would be no avoidance or minimising of incidental loss of civilian life; Hague Convention, 1907, because unnecessary suffering would be caused and there would be no guarantee of the inviolability of neutral nations;

You're so stupid, this is too easy.  Have you ever read the Declaration of St. Petersburg?  Here's what it says:

Quote
The Contracting Parties engage mutually to renounce, in case of war among themselves, the employment by their military or naval troops of any projectile of a weight below 400 grammes, which is either explosive or charged with fulminating or inflammable substances.
They will invite all the States which have not taken part in the deliberations of the International Military Commission assembled at St. Petersburg by sending Delegates thereto, to accede to the present engagement.

This engagement is compulsory only upon the Contracting or Acceding Parties thereto in case of war between two or more of themselves; it is not applicable to non-Contracting Parties, or Parties who shall not have acceded to it.

It will also cease to be compulsory from the moment when, in a war between Contracting or Acceding Parties, a non-Contracting Party or a non-Acceding Party shall join one of the belligerents.

The Contracting or Acceding Parties reserve to themselves to come hereafter to an understanding whenever a precise proposition shall be drawn up in view of future improvements which science may effect in the armament of troops, in order to maintain the principles which they have established, and to conciliate the necessities of war with the laws of humanity.

Done at St. Petersburg, 29 November (11 December) 1868.

So moron, as you can see, it DOES NOT apply to the use of atomic weapons.  Moreover, the US never signed it.  God, you're stupid.  Even if it did apply, we never agreed to it.

The Hague Conventions address naval mines, etc.  Even the Geneva Protocol added to the Hague Convention only applied to biological and chemical weapons.  Atomic weapons were not addressed.

Do you read?  You must have the comprehension level of a small child?  Are you older than, say, 10 years old?  Do you not understand words?  Seriously, I doubt you've ever graduated high school.  I'm actually coming around to feeling pity for you, more than anything.


* Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948, because long-lasting radioactive contamination would interfere with innocent people's right to life and health;
* Geneva Conventions, 1949, because protection of the wounded, sick, the infirm, expectant mothers, civilian hospitals and health workers would not be ensured;
* The Protocols Additional to the Geneva Conventions, 1977, because there would be massive incidental losses of civilian lives and widespread, long-term and severe damage to the environment.

The Geneva Convention Protocol 1977 prohibits attacks on civilians and methods of warfare which are intended,  or may be anticipated, to cause widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment. (Article 35)

Thus the use of nuclear weapons agains civilians is clearly against the Geneva conventions of 1949 as well as 1977.


Hey MORON:  NEWSFLASH:  1945 IS BEFORE 1948, 1949 AND 1977.


5. You lied when you say the geneva convention exclusively deals with the treatment of prisoners of war.

6. You lie when you say the use of terror bombing strategies against civilians does not constitue a war crime.

Nope.  Until you cite the section of the Geneva Conventions that say otherwise, you sir, are the liar.

Still waiting for the evidence....if it was so evident, why can't you post it... Hmmm...

It's obvious why you won't.  It's because you can't.  Liar.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
Europe
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« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2008, 01:40:01 PM »

ROFL - The most retarded idiot I ever debated with it is ...

Hehe, I just posted 6 cases where your  lies are obious in this thread. You failed to defend miserable to address a single one of the points.  Grin

It's kind of rediculing a gun-crazed, McCarthyist, religious fanatic. I hope your medication is not too expensive.  Grin

But I understand your desperation - it is not easy to defend the worst mass murder in history as a patriotic act - ROFL

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cauboi
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« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2008, 01:52:11 PM »

STEPHEN HERO,

Take it easy man, that what he is after: to boil your blood, make your fuses jump, don't give him satisfaction!
I gave up with him a long time ago, he is just a propaganda officer, no matter what you will say or even what he thinks, that is his line he was given by his bosses, he has to repeat the party's point of view. He might even defect if he would've have the slightest chance to do so. I just feel sorry for the guy, he seems OK deep down, but he is stuck with the evil. You have to feel his pain.... he's missing something you have, so be  kind !
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Europe
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« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2008, 01:59:42 PM »

ROFL -  This is what non-religious non-mccarthyist non-fanatics think about the use of nuclear weapons and indiscriminate bombing of civilians:

http://www.dannen.com/decision/int-law.html

In fact all countries except Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and .... guess who ... USA, have ratified the Geneva protocol of 1977, which once again outlaws the the use of indiscriminate force agains civilians.

But of course Stephen-the-joke will not be bothered to read it. Because murdering 400000 civilians was "necessary" ...

« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 02:05:01 PM by Europe » Logged
cauboi
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« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2008, 02:05:51 PM »

But I understand your desperation - it is not easy to defend the worst mass murder in history as a patriotic act - ROFL


I don't defend that at all !
I totally agree with bombing of Hiroshima, as I already put it plain and simple and it seems you want to ignore it: If America wouldn't have bombed the Japanese, the Chinese prisoners of war would have continued to be cut alive by Japanese military doctors, inside most horrible concentration camps ever existed. America should have nuked Germany as well, but that war ended just before America got the bomb.
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Stephen Hero
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« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2008, 02:07:22 PM »

ROFL - The most retarded idiot I ever debated with it is ...

More non-responses... the final death knell of the losers.

At least you know when to roll-over.  You've been pinned and exposed.  You're inability to respond underscores your previous lies.  That is, of course, pending your posting of the Geneva Convention Article that supports what you think it does...

Hmm, why haven't you posted that yet... Liar.

You're a joke.  But thanks for playing.  You've been a sport -- well not really, been sure been fun to demolish.
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Never let us do wrong, because our opponents did so. Let us, rather, by doing right, show them what they ought to have done, and establish a rule the dictates of reason and conscience, rather than of the angry passions.
cauboi
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« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2008, 02:29:38 PM »

The Nuke, used in WWII, was not included in Geneva Convention, because it never existed before, so was total legit. Today, there are different rules of war. In the next war, when one party will try to use a nuclear bomb, will be neutralized by a new age weapon (kind of Star Wars program - if there is such weapon invented yet). In that case, the Geneva Convention will not apply yet, for another decade or so, until UN will figure out to write a new set of rules. Capisci ?

War is an art! Try to paint with the right paintbrush, or you'll just get a scratch on the wall, instead
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