|
Cass
|
 |
« on: June 06, 2008, 12:33:59 PM » |
|
The Ignorant American Voter Historian Rick Shenkman laments the breed in his new book, "Just How Stupid Are We?" By Bret Schulte Posted June 3, 2008 The long Iraq war. The bungled Hurricane Katrina response. The credit crunch. A quick look at the newspapers will give many voters reason to doubt the wisdom of America's political leaders. Unfortunately, Americans are doing little to educate themselves about their leaders and their policies, says bestselling author and George Mason University historian Rick Shenkman in his new book Just How Stupid Are We? Facing the Truth About the American Voter. Shenkman cites some damning facts to make his case that Americans are ill-prepared to guide the world's most powerful democracy. Only 2 of 5 voters can name the three branches of the federal government. And 49 percent of Americans think the president has the authority to suspend the Constitution. But, for Shenkman, the severity of the problem snapped into focus after Sept. 11, 2001, when polls showed that a large number of Americans knew little about the attacks and the Iraq war that followed. He blames some of the public's misunderstanding on the White House message machine, but he argues that Americans did little to seek the truth. "As became irrefutably clear in scientific polls undertaken after 9/11...millions of Americans simply cannot fathom the twists and turns that complicated debates take," Shenkman writes. Shenkman spoke to U.S. News about the competence of the American voter. This appears to me to be a fascinating take on one of my complaints about voters who IMHO too often vote on little but 30 second clips on TV and often observed shortly before heading to the polls. The article is IMHO well worth the time to read and I believe the book will be as well. Not advertising for Shenkman. But a check of his bio I believe will show he's a very respected historian. Maybe a topic to discuss if others may share or disagree with my premise and maybe Shenkman's. http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/06/03/the-ignorant-american-voter_print.htm |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
|
|
|
|
Cass
|
|
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 12:37:40 PM » |
|
I'm informed by moderators it is not kosher to post two links on one post, but if any are interested in Shenkman's premise and willing to take a bit more time to read and/or watch, this youtube by Shenkman is interesting evidence related to his concept of the "stupid voter." Are Americans really as stupid as Shenkman suggests? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqDi1Vi-2qo |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
|
|
|
|
Reaganite
|
|
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 12:52:37 PM » |
|
I'm informed by moderators it is not kosher to post two links on one post, but if any are interested in Shenkman's premise and willing to take a bit more time to read and/or watch, this youtube by Shenkman is interesting evidence related to his concept of the "stupid voter." Are Americans really as stupid as Shenkman suggests? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqDi1Vi-2qoyea the proof is Obama... the fact he made it as far as he has right now is proof that substance is useless. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
You get what you pay for America... Welcome to the Obamanation.....
|
|
|
|
Cass
|
|
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 01:22:45 PM » |
|
ROTFL, Reaganite, speaking of substance, maybe I should share an old op ed I wrote in 1984 and published in my local paper at the time, titled: "All Style And No Substance" about your screen namesake.  Curiosity overcomes, as typically a supporter of GOP candidates, who would your choice have been to represent your Party. I'm sure if I reached back a bit I might discover who you were touting in the primaries, but humor me please. Just the name will suffice and I'll then have a better view of what you consider "substance" as I never fell for "It's Morning In America" as a substantive view. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 01:35:15 PM » |
|
I don't think the problem is stupidity per se - it's apathy. The Government and the Media ensure that all the American voter gets to see is the sniper gaffe, or the pastor incident and that sort of incident. If you want to see issues you have to actively search for them, and any attempts to debate them will be ignored by all but a handful of intelligentsia like us (well, some of us). The political classes don't want the public to take an interest in politics beyond chanting "we want change" (what changes specifically?) at rallies and such because if people were really interested in politics they would be subject to too much scrutiny.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
|
Cass
|
|
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 02:14:43 PM » |
|
IamMe, could it also be related to what I might suggest was also a lack of ability or choice not to read? Both the candidates now left standing for the presidency, have websites available to explain overviews and some specifics of their personal views and goals. I also suspect along with the apathy you mention, as Shenkman, suggests in both the article and
the youtube, there is a serious lack of knowledge, perhaps a failure of the educational system related to the realities of how government works. And one more factor I suspect might
be for many the process of simply making a living and caring for a family as most families or now two earner ones with a minimum of two jobs and sometimes more to make ends
meet along with many single parent ones. I offer these points not as excuses, but as possible factors. As you suggest we who post on a forum such as this are "political junkies."
Though at times I wonder if the simplicity of such forums are a negative factor in the involvement in more public rather than anonymous political activism.
Thank you for stating your opinion. I think I will purchase Shenkman's book to be able to read it in full rather than the excerpts provided in the article posted. My summer reading
list grows.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
|
|
|
Stratrf_Rus
Jr. Member
Karma: +1/-33
Posts: 88
|
|
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 02:16:29 PM » |
|
The President does have the power to suspend the US Constitution.
By suspending Habeas Corpus you suspend rule of law entirely.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2008, 02:27:10 PM » |
|
IamMe, could it also be related to what I might suggest was also a lack of ability or choice not to read? Both the candidates now left standing for the presidency, have websites available to explain overviews and some specifics of their personal views and goals. I also suspect along with the apathy you mention, as Shenkman, suggests in both the article and
the youtube, there is a serious lack of knowledge, perhaps a failure of the educational system related to the realities of how government works. And one more factor I suspect might
be for many the process of simply making a living and caring for a family as most families or now two earner ones with a minimum of two jobs and sometimes more to make ends
meet along with many single parent ones. I offer these points not as excuses, but as possible factors. As you suggest we who post on a forum such as this are "political junkies."
Though at times I wonder if the simplicity of such forums are a negative factor in the involvement in more public rather than anonymous political activism.
Thank you for stating your opinion. I think I will purchase Shenkman's book to be able to read it in full rather than the excerpts provided in the article posted. My summer reading
list grows.
I think those may well be factors, but I think the main factors are the media conspiracy not to have an intelligent debate (and by conspiracy I don't mean a formal conspiracy like some conspiracy-nut. The media moguls are profiting from the status quo - if there is no real debate it is very difficult to make any meaningful change to that status quo) and the fact that people are conditioned to defer to experts on political issues (the conditioning is subtle but ever-present). I'm reminded of a Noam Chomsky quote I came across recently: 've often been struck by the extensive knowledge that people have of sports, and particularly, their self-confidence in discussing it with "experts." While driving, I sometimes turn on radio talk shows on sports, and am always struck by this. People calling in have no hesitation in criticizing the coaches, the judgments of the people running the shows, etc. In contrast, when discussing matters of concern to human lives -- their own and others -- people tend to defer to "experts," though for the most part the expert knowledge is no more beyond them than how the local professional sports team should play their next game. That's where the indoctrination comes in: in the intensive training that brings people to feel that they must defer to alleged "experts" on matters of very direct concern to them, far more so than sports. BTW, I have been to Clinton's and Obama's websites. There seems to be very little of substance on either - but that is not a surprise. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
|
Cass
|
|
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2008, 02:43:23 PM » |
|
IamMe, it would be foolish to suggest the media is not involved in a conspiracy, maybe even a real one, as the same corporations who own or have interlocking directorships are synonymous with the same ones who for the most part, though their political contributions or lobbyists, also control the choices typically offered for nomination or election and most of the actions that take place in the U.S. Congress related to much of the legislative. Consider who owns what and it is an obvious factor, but it is a can of worms not of my intent to open on this thread. However, this site provides some valuable and also valid information for examination if you've never been there previously. http://www.cjr.org/resources/As to the comment from the poster about the rights of a president, sometimes, IMHO ignorance will out.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
|
|
|
|
Reaganite
|
|
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2008, 03:16:58 PM » |
|
ROTFL, Reaganite, speaking of substance, maybe I should share an old op ed I wrote in 1984 and published in my local paper at the time, titled: "All Style And No Substance" about your screen namesake. Curiosity overcomes, as typically a supporter of GOP candidates, who would your choice have been to represent your Party. I'm sure if I reached back a bit I might discover who you were touting in the primaries, but humor me please. Just the name will suffice and I'll then have a better view of what you consider "substance" as I never fell for "It's Morning In America" as a substantive view. Sure please provide a link... Also, I have given my support to NO CANDIDATE at all this election. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
You get what you pay for America... Welcome to the Obamanation.....
|
|
|
|
Cass
|
|
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2008, 05:42:50 PM » |
|
Strange I thought you said you're voting for Obama. I was interested in if prior to the selection of McCain, you had a favorite. Sorry, no link to an article printed in 1984. The internet
LOL, was not then a dominant factor of print media as it is today, most especially local papers.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
|
|
|
|
