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mdma
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« Reply #105 on: July 08, 2008, 12:24:03 PM » |
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a war hawk? I want conflict to end but not with annihilation of my race, seems you fine with it but i'm not. Sorry for being so.
It's fockin funny to see ppl who call themselves smart and educated trying to push 'peace agenda' when history proves it never worked. This is planet earth not buggering Wonderland, mr.IamMe. I want to live and all you peace treaties keep for teh Bollywood movies.
Arabs see Jews as enemy, doesn't matter what. Your words mean nothing to them or me, especially when your country a-bombed Japan, ruined Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and shitloads of other countries to become an 'empire'.
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Cass
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« Reply #106 on: July 08, 2008, 12:39:34 PM » |
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"Your words mean nothing to them or me, especially when your country a-bombed Japan, ruined Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and shitloads of other countries to become an 'empire'." quote by mdma.
Apparently, you continue to ignore my major complaints remain against the current leadership of my country and their behavior which IMHO has been devastating to both the Israeli and Palestinian people who in the end are those who continue to suffer as the result.
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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
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« Reply #107 on: July 08, 2008, 12:43:16 PM » |
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a war hawk? I want conflict to end but not with annihilation of my race, seems you fine with it but i'm not. Sorry for being so.
It's fockin funny to see ppl who call themselves smart and educated trying to push 'peace agenda' when history proves it never worked. This is planet earth not buggering Wonderland, mr.IamMe. I want to live and all you peace treaties keep for teh Bollywood movies.
Arabs see Jews as enemy, doesn't matter what. Your words mean nothing to them or me, especially when your country a-bombed Japan, ruined Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and shitloads of other countries to become an 'empire'.
Nor is a good guys vs. terrorists Hollywood movie. BTW, my country is Ireland, who never bombed anything. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
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realityman
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« Reply #108 on: July 09, 2008, 04:32:05 AM » |
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Just so you are aware, I do not recognize Israel's “right to exist.”....
Maybe this explains why you seem irrational on the related issues... And why you seem to want to ignore Hamas' agenda of destroying Israel... hmmm  |
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Terry Mathis
High Society
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Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #109 on: July 09, 2008, 06:35:36 AM » |
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But Israel does have a right to exist according to the U.N. I do agree that ancient rights are hard to prove, as with any nation. We have to remember that in war, the victor gets all the 'spoils' (meaning land). Thus, Israel as a nation has every right to defend itself from any and all enemies. Gaza is not a nation and is run by terrorists according to the U.N. again, as well as most nations. Thus they are not accorded protection under the Geneva Conventions.
The bottom line is that Israel has every right to defend itself, by any means necessary, from the rockets, suicide bombers, and infiltrators that emanate from Gaza (occupied territory). Any nation would protect itself in a like manner.
That is very clear, for all concerned be you left, right, or middle of the road ideologically.
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
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mdma
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« Reply #110 on: July 09, 2008, 08:36:59 AM » |
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Nor is a good guys vs. terrorists Hollywood movie. Never said that a 'good guys vs. terrorists' is the one that i i watch. But there is major difference between criticizing both of sides and criticizing only one especially when you are not clean by yourself and using offensive language. BTW, my country is Ireland, who never bombed anything.
Except few fellow Englishman. Now i know where your love towards terrorists coming from. Aye, an Irish says 'bad Israelis'. Relax fuerer mate, we just been an English colony. You don't need to fight us. |
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« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 08:38:40 AM by mdma »
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« Reply #111 on: July 09, 2008, 10:49:18 AM » |
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Just so you are aware, I do not recognize Israel's “right to exist.”....
Maybe this explains why you seem irrational on the related issues... And why you seem to want to ignore Hamas' agenda of destroying Israel... hmmm I have explained my reasons for this. It is disingenuous of you to take that one quote out of context. Here's a challenge: see if you can find for me one source showing that any other nation in history has claimed a "right to exist." |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
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« Reply #112 on: July 09, 2008, 11:03:17 AM » |
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The bottom line is that Israel has every right to defend itself, by any means necessary
This is perhaps the most immoral statement I have heard in relation to the Arab-Israeli conflict.You assert that Israel has a right to defend itself by any means necessary. Why does Israel get this special right to do whatever it wants? The bottom line is that Israel is only able to operate above morality and human rights because the United States allows it to. It does not have any moral right to do so and never will. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
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« Reply #113 on: July 09, 2008, 11:08:11 AM » |
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BTW, my country is Ireland, who never bombed anything.
Except few fellow Englishman. Now i know where your love towards terrorists coming from. Aye, an Irish says 'bad Israelis'. Relax fuerer mate, we just been an English colony. You don't need to fight us. No, Ireland has never bombed anyone. Irish terrorists have, and I have always condemned them. (I have even condemned our so called patriots for using violence to fight for Independence). I can link you to other fora where I have done so, if you don't believe me. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
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mdma
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« Reply #114 on: July 09, 2008, 11:58:18 AM » |
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Exactly, Ireland never bombed anyone because you have terrorists, Irish terrorists. Like Palestinians do.
Plain and simple.
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Cass
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« Reply #115 on: July 09, 2008, 12:08:03 PM » |
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While I agree with the philosophical suggestion that Israel has a right to exist, if for no other reason than they have been able to defend the territory awarded to them in the partition, I find no evidence the U.N. has labeled Hamas a terrorist group though a number of nations, often led by the U.S., have. In addition, I find this response on About.com interesting in those listed as terrorist groups. If one accepts the PLO and Fatah defined as terrorist groups here, it begs the question why the U.S. has supported Fatah, negotiated with the PLO under Arafat, and Israel continues to negotiate with Abbas as the leader of Fatah, while refusing to negotiate with Hamas after they were legally elected by the Palestinian people. http://terrorism.about.com/od/groupsleader1/a/TerroristGroups.htm?p=1Wikipedia, shows Hamas to be a terrorist group by these here :Hamas - West Bank, Gaza Strip. Listed as a terrorist organization by Australia, Canada, the European Union, Israel, and the United States[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizationsNeedless to state, but I will anyhow, Bush and the Bush/Cheney Administration has stated on a number of occasions, "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists." I hardly have a personal history of being "with" the policies and practices of this venal Administration. Does that make me a terrorist? |
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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
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Terry Mathis
High Society
Hero Member
Karma: +57/-92
Posts: 1,239
Goulburn NSW Australia Dual Australian/U.S.
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« Reply #116 on: July 09, 2008, 12:10:29 PM » |
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The bottom line is that Israel has every right to defend itself, by any means necessary
This is perhaps the most immoral statement I have heard in relation to the Arab-Israeli conflict.You assert that Israel has a right to defend itself by any means necessary. Why does Israel get this special right to do whatever it wants? The bottom line is that Israel is only able to operate above morality and human rights because the United States allows it to. It does not have any moral right to do so and never will. You take my assertions out of context. Any nation has the right to protect itself by any means necessary. There is no morality in War, morality goes out the window when defensive aggression or a war is going on. |
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Its not what they say that bothers me, its what they say that just aint so that does ! - Will Rogers So that we may end the oppression wrought by our own hands.
- Shulman |
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realityman
Full Member
Karma: +26/-10
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« Reply #117 on: July 09, 2008, 01:02:26 PM » |
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I have explained my reasons for this. It is disingenuous of you to take that one quote out of context....
I see your point "IamMe"... Let me clarify as I think you may be misinterpretting what is generally meant by "right to exist" (as many do)... Of course no other nation has "claimed a right to exist"... NOR has Israel "claimed a right to exist"... They don't "claim it", they simply want those who've previously openly sought their distruction to recognize that "they are a nation"... and that seeking their destruction can not be recognized as legitimate or somehow justified... No other nation I'm aware of is in a position to need "recognition" of it's right to exist and defend itself against those who seek to do it harm... No other nation has been "ganged up on" time and time against by it's neighbors with a stated agenda of their elimination....The "right to exist" term often gets misused by those seeking to exploit one agenda or another... (by both sides) While I'm certainly not for any Arab/Muslim nation or entity being forced or having to achknowledge Israel's right to "exist" based on historical connections, religion, history, etc. (as often portrayed by those opposing recognition, or hard right-winged pro-Israelis)... Those groups/nations who have a clear historic agenda through their leadership of seeking to destroy the nation/state of Israel, particularly those who's Covenants/establishment documentation calling for Israel's destruction, in any permenant peace deal, will/would have to recognize that Israel has a right to "be"/exist (as do other established nations) and has a right to defend itself and it's citizens against those who seek to do it/them harm..(as do other established nations... What is sought out of having a previously hostile nation or as today with Hamas having to accept "Israel's right to exist" is NOT that Israel needs someone else to tell them they have a right to be there, BUT TO DE-LEGITIMIZE the CAUSE of active seeking of Israel's destruction... (as examplified by the Covenant of Hamas, and the PLO Charter) |
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« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 01:04:18 PM by realityman »
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IamMe
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« Reply #118 on: July 09, 2008, 01:29:58 PM » |
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The bottom line is that Israel has every right to defend itself, by any means necessary
This is perhaps the most immoral statement I have heard in relation to the Arab-Israeli conflict.You assert that Israel has a right to defend itself by any means necessary. Why does Israel get this special right to do whatever it wants? The bottom line is that Israel is only able to operate above morality and human rights because the United States allows it to. It does not have any moral right to do so and never will. You take my assertions out of context. Any nation has the right to protect itself by any means necessary. There is no morality in War, morality goes out the window when defensive aggression or a war is going on. Morality does not go out of the window in case of war, that is dangerous nonsense. The reason we have concepts like war crimes, crimes against humanity etc. is because there are legitimate and illegitimate ways to conduct a war. This has been the case since the 1930s. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
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IamMe
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« Reply #119 on: July 09, 2008, 01:53:24 PM » |
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I have explained my reasons for this. It is disingenuous of you to take that one quote out of context....
I see your point "IamMe"... Let me clarify as I think you may be misinterpretting what is generally meant by "right to exist" (as many do)... Of course no other nation has "claimed a right to exist"... NOR has Israel "claimed a right to exist"... They don't "claim it", they simply want those who've previously openly sought their distruction to recognize that "they are a nation"... and that seeking their destruction can not be recognized as legitimate or somehow justified... No other nation I'm aware of is in a position to need "recognition" of it's right to exist and defend itself against those who seek to do it harm... No other nation has been "ganged up on" time and time against by it's neighbors with a stated agenda of their elimination....The "right to exist" term often gets misused by those seeking to exploit one agenda or another... (by both sides) While I'm certainly not for any Arab/Muslim nation or entity being forced or having to achknowledge Israel's right to "exist" based on historical connections, religion, history, etc. (as often portrayed by those opposing recognition, or hard right-winged pro-Israelis)... Those groups/nations who have a clear historic agenda through their leadership of seeking to destroy the nation/state of Israel, particularly those who's Covenants/establishment documentation calling for Israel's destruction, in any permenant peace deal, will/would have to recognize that Israel has a right to "be"/exist (as do other established nations) and has a right to defend itself and it's citizens against those who seek to do it/them harm..(as do other established nations... What is sought out of having a previously hostile nation or as today with Hamas having to accept "Israel's right to exist" is NOT that Israel needs someone else to tell them they have a right to be there, BUT TO DE-LEGITIMIZE the CAUSE of active seeking of Israel's destruction... (as examplified by the Covenant of Hamas, and the PLO Charter) Denying Israel's "right to exist" is not the same as advocating its destruction, and your attempts at guilt-by-association won't change that. (BTW check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_exist) |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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