Olmert recently claimed that Israel gets to the point that overtaking control over Gaza Strip so Fatah can out power Hamas. So heres teh poll. None of answers represent my real thoughts but just made specifically to see how much hidden Al-Queda members we got here.

Certainly Israel isn't going to tolerate a seemingly never-ending streem a Kassam rockets and wouldbe suicide bombers targetting their civilians forever... And certainly Fatah or "Palestinians" as a whole aren't showing any meaningful progress or even a willingness toward acting against Hamas (or the others) on their own... Which, as usual, leaves the job to Israel.

And this, of course, leaves Israel in the same dilemma it normally finds itself in with regard to Palestinian terrorists.  As Hamas hides behind and among the Palestinian population, builds bombs in neighborhood houses, fires rockets from civilian neighborhoods, any major incursion would certainly kill innocents Palestinian civilians along the way ... The more serious the incursion, the more innocents that will be killed.. Of course, Hamas will use these innocent deaths to plead "victim" to the world's ear, while symultaneously continuing to terrorize and, fire rockets at Israeli men, women, and children.  The UN will, of course, pass meaningless resolution after meaningless resolution condemning Israel, while basically ignoring Hamas and their terrorism which causes/caused the incursion in the first place... 

BUT AT SOME POINT, tough action will need to be taken.  Hamas wants "ceasefires" to rearm, reorganize, and to build strength, while refusing to recognize Israel's right to exist... It should be abundantly clear that while talking "peace talks" and "negotiations", the Palestinians aren't showing any meaningful signs of being able or willing to take action against Hamas (or their other terrorist groups) on their own... so, here we go again.

But let's hear some more complaining from the "Palestinian leadership" regarding those "evil Israeli checkpoints" and how they're not needed..:

Sure appears as the Israeli Zionists who are those who provide news from their perspective on the DEBKAfiles, are quite upset
by this development.  What might it entail? 

Palestinian Unity Ploy Will Steal Gaza Military Initiative from Israel
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
June 7, 2008, 6:19 PM (GMT+02:00)

Mahmoud Abbas: Double game
The Cairo effort to broker a ceasefire in Gaza between Israel and the Palestinian Hamas proves now to have been no more than a cover-up for the real game afoot: a move brokered by the Senegalese president Abdoulaye Wade to mend the feud between Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah and the fundamentalist Hamas.
Palestinian peace talks were secretly launched Friday, June 6 in Dakar at the end of the Organization of Islamic Conference summit. Mahmoud Abbas, chairman of the Palestinian Authority, ignored Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert’s ultimatum that he would break off ongoing peace talks if he opted for reconciliation with Hamas.
Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who visited Gaza on May 27, was a live wire in the move.

The complete article is available on the link.

http://www.debka.com/article_print.php?aid=1353

Then in reading on Haaretz on this issue one finds this.

Last update - 15:28 08/06/2008         

Defense sources: Talk of major IDF operation in Gaza premature

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and Reuters

Tags: Gaza, Hamas, Israel, IDF

Despite stern warning from Israeli officials about an impending massive operation against Hamas in the Gaza Strip, the big invasion is less certain and imminent than how it is painted in the media, according to defense and military sources.

The sources told Haaretz on Saturday that negotiations on a cease-fire will continue for the next two weeks with Hamas, barring Israeli casualties from Qassam rockets. Only after that period, the sources said, will the government formulate and decide on its next moves vis-a-vis the Islamist organization.

This full article is also located on the link.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/990954.html

Neat way of avoiding the articles posted today from Israel, same old attitude, to ignore the opinions. Seems Fred when the news shows loads of action by the IDF even with the typical indiscriminate killing of civilians, a factor of the use of the weaponry provided by U.S. taxpayers you show more interest in discussion.  Maybe I'm incorrect in that assessment or maybe if there
should be any real possibility, not of peace, but at least a lessening of the violence, any and all possibilities should be kept open.
But then I've not chosen to fall in line with the current actions of the Administration of my nation.

And Terry, if in the long run there is an ultimate agreement between Hamas and Fatah to share power, what does that do to the ability of Israel to continue to hold Gaza hostage or
continue to build settlements in the occupied territories?

For some in the U.S. there is the opinion that those in the Bush Administration are greater terrorists, on many levels, than even Osama and far worse than Hamas.  But those who might advocate assassination would most likely find themselves imprisoned and with no availability of Habeas Corpus because Bush decided to no longer recognize that rule of law, so they might be deprived of all rights to even a trial even if they are U.S. citizens. To say nothing of those still held at GITMO denied even the Geneva Conventions, because Bush
decided to do so by fiat once again.

While there may be disagreement about the legality of the election of Hamas, because Bush preferred Fatah and did their best to get Abbas elected, even to providing funds from U.S. taxpayers for that purpose, it has been Bush who has insisted the election was not a legal one.  And then there comes the entrance of Carter along with the Iran/Contra convicted  criminal, Elliot Abrams who continues to stir it in Israel on behalf of BushInc.  Wonder why Abrams, an original member of PNAC , Bill Kristol's neo-con organization is never mentioned in discussions on forums related to his activities in Israel? Maybe some haven't a clue about who he is, his history, his associations or the actions he takes in Israel
in the process of promoting BushInc. policies?

I suspect we might agree the issues are far more complex not just on an Israeli or U.S. basis, but an international one with the whole ME in turmoil because of the intransigence of BushInc. to become involved in real and realistic negotiations based on his claim not to "negotiate with terrorists."

realityman, I don't think the earth is flat or that 9-11 was an Administration conspiracy or any of your other stated assumptions. However, neither do I fall for the daily propaganda
nor all of the choice to label groups as terrorists because the BushInc. decides to do so. Was the invasion of Iraq and the ensuing occupation, a nation who never attacked the U.S.
anything different than the attacks on 9-11 by a group harbored by the Taliban?  It was hardly a defensive act usually considered by most nation states a basis for war. You mentioned Canada, who is supporting the U.S. in Afghanistan, but had the very good sense to stay out of Iraq as the did the conflict in Vietnam for some very valid reasons. In reality the  so-called "coalition" was little more, with the exception of Britain and far less involvement by Australia,  than those who were bought/bribed and paid for. Hardly the same as Desert Storm when the case brought before the U.N. was the removal of Saddam from Kuwait and when that was accomplished the combat was effectivly ended in the shortest war in U.S. history.  Now over 5 years since shock and awe, most of that "coalition" has departed while others will go in the near future. Though it appears the U.S.
plans to stay for the duration or maybe the next 100 years regardless of the desires of the sovereign nation of Iraq, only supported by the puppet al Maliki.

But that argument is hardly the topic of this thread though my comments about some in the U.S. who do consider BushInc. terrorists is the one you chose to respond to.  There are
two articles posted yesterday with one  about the possible cooperation between Hamas and Fatah.  I'm curious about the possible results should that occur on the Israeli ability to continue to isolate Gaza.  Should cooperation occur then the topic of this thread becomes moot. Possibility? Probability? Who knows, but perhaps not a total impossibility.  But moving on.

Does Elliot Abrams and his activities in Israel remain the fly in the ointment in Israel and continue on behalf of his involvement with Kristols PNAC, along with Cheney, continue to stir the pot to keep the violence going?  Why doesn't anyone ever consider the actions Abrams continues in his position in Israel?  While I have no doubt some will fault the site, the information provided here is valid. The daily arguments related to who is the rockets from Gaza or the attacks in retaliation by the iDF or IAF make up the rabid accusations and argument about who are the guilty parties and who is attacking whom.  But there is activity unseen and unreported regularly going on behind the media's reach and Abrams is a part of that.  Hardly one that is IMHO working for peace. Worth a read if there is any interest other than BushInc. propaganda.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jtaylor.php?articleid=12349

 

I think the idea, repeated by a few here, that Hamas are immune to compromise, or that they will never stop firing rockets or whatever, is a dangerous one. Speaking from my own experience here in Ireland, there was a time when that could be claimed about the IRA and, indeed, the IRA said they would not stop killing until they got their demands (which was a 32-county independent Irish republic). However, once the talks started most were willing to compromise. They did not get their republic or anything like it and there are some on both sides who have not renounced violence but those people have been marginalized, whereas before they had a large support base. I believe the same can happen with Hamas and Palestine - and I certainly believe that it would be short sighted and dangerous to rule it out.

Yes, but then it just means we are trapped forever in the status quo, an endless cycle of violence. It is my belief that if Israel were to drop its demand for their right to exist to be recongised then meaningful negotiations may begin. Until they do so, Hamas cannot and will not commit to negotiations.