|
IamMe
|
 |
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2007, 01:04:52 PM » |
|
As I said, I still haven't found anyone able to beat this point: We don't know the real life cycle cost of a nuclear power plant. If it is known, it's lept secret. But infomed guess is nobody wants to know else it wpould be proven to be a money pit.
Your "point" is based on an Argument from Ignorance" (a logical fallacy). |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
HighPlainsDrifter
High Society
Newbie
Karma: +13/-2
Posts: 47
|
|
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2007, 07:59:15 AM » |
|
Considering that no country (let alone power plant) on this planet has ever achieved safe permanent nuclear waste disposal (including what to do with the radioactive parts of the plant itself at the end of its productive life), a true comprehensive life cycle analysis of nuclear power is impossible at this time.
Not ignorance. Fact.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 08:01:16 AM by HighPlainsDrifter »
|
Logged
|
America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.
Alexis de Tocqueville
|
|
|
|
IamMe
|
|
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2007, 12:13:34 PM » |
|
Considering that no country (let alone power plant) on this planet has ever achieved safe permanent nuclear waste disposal (including what to do with the radioactive parts of the plant itself at the end of its productive life), a true comprehensive life cycle analysis of nuclear power is impossible at this time.
Not ignorance. Fact.
Is this even relevant? What does our inability to store nuclear waste have to do with the cost per watt? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
|
|
|
|
Gojira
|
|
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2007, 12:48:13 PM » |
|
We do have great methods for containment. Yes, radioactive material's half-life takes eons to decompose. That's whey they are buried 6 miles below ground. Just set it and forget it.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
|
|
|
Major Zee Lee
Forum cat lover
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +64/-169
Posts: 566
Kooks not allowed in (Secret meeting is next door)
|
|
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2007, 01:01:39 PM » |
|
Considering that no country (let alone power plant) on this planet has ever achieved safe permanent nuclear waste disposal (including what to do with the radioactive parts of the plant itself at the end of its productive life), a true comprehensive life cycle analysis of nuclear power is impossible at this time.
Not ignorance. Fact.
Is this even relevant? What does our inability to store nuclear waste have to do with the cost per watt? Someone has to pay for the waste. If we don't know how much it costs, then we don't know what's the cost per watt. Let's say you're to be held repsonsible for whatever happens with the waste generated by YOUR power comsumption, for the next 3,000 years... what's the cost of it? And conversely, why should pay for the waste someone who has not used the power generated through the production of such waste? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do not take life too seriously; nobody lives to tell.
|
|
|
HighPlainsDrifter
High Society
Newbie
Karma: +13/-2
Posts: 47
|
|
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2007, 02:16:40 PM » |
|
We do have great methods for containment. Yes, radioactive material's half-life takes eons to decompose. That's whey they are buried 6 miles below ground. Just set it and forget it.
Where might that be? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.
Alexis de Tocqueville
|
|
|
Biker Dude
A TRUE Liberal!
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-117
Posts: 2,101
Live to Ride, Ride to Live
|
|
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2007, 02:55:36 PM » |
|
We do have great methods for containment. Yes, radioactive material's half-life takes eons to decompose. That's whey they are buried 6 miles below ground. Just set it and forget it.
Where might that be? I am not sure, but it would seem he might be referring to our Great Underground Disposal site. It's been a long time since I researched it, but it's not operational yet I think. And to just 'set it and forget it' would be moronic, as it is set up with man many monitoring systems. I am not sure how long term the storage there is expected to be effective. And I would think that costs of things like this should be included in your cost/watt calculation. Disposal is a fact of life and a normal operating cost in a great many business. Should be considered here too. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 Who will watch the watchers?Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about? |
|
|
Biker Dude
A TRUE Liberal!
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-117
Posts: 2,101
Live to Ride, Ride to Live
|
|
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2007, 03:04:55 PM » |
|
Nevada. http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/ym_repository/index.shtmlMy appoligies, it seems that Yucca Mountain CAN accept waste, as of 2006. I was un-able to find if it has. It would also seem that it's not actually completed. I read some quotes from Harry Reid saying he was going to block it so it couldn't be completed. Never mind that we have spent some seven billion dollars on it. Plus I believe there are still a number of law suits pending regarding it. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Who will watch the watchers?Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about?
|
|
|
|
Gojira
|
|
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2007, 04:51:42 PM » |
|
Thanks for the support Biker Dude.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
|
|
|
Biker Dude
A TRUE Liberal!
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-117
Posts: 2,101
Live to Ride, Ride to Live
|
|
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2007, 08:09:44 PM » |
|
I wouldn't quite term it support. More like I like people to have the facts. Personally I think you are a little too cavalier about waste storage and containment. It IS an issue, and it is not as solved as you make it sound. I think nuclear is a viable short term option, but it is incredible capital cost heavy.... fo' shizzle.
i don't understand what everyone has against solar power. I'd rather have my subsidies go there than to some toxic waste. I work in solar. We are doing R&D on solar cells on flexible thin films, building our pilot production line, and making plans for our first full production line. There is more going on in solar than you might be aware of. It is happening, and hopefully soon. With the amount of power that hits the planet every day, we would be fools not to try to use it! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Who will watch the watchers?Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about?
|
|
|
Major Zee Lee
Forum cat lover
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +64/-169
Posts: 566
Kooks not allowed in (Secret meeting is next door)
|
|
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2007, 02:38:02 AM » |
|
I wouldn't quite term it support. More like I like people to have the facts. Personally I think you are a little too cavalier about waste storage and containment. It IS an issue, and it is not as solved as you make it sound. I think nuclear is a viable short term option, but it is incredible capital cost heavy.... fo' shizzle.
i don't understand what everyone has against solar power. I'd rather have my subsidies go there than to some toxic waste. I work in solar. We are doing R&D on solar cells on flexible thin films, building our pilot production line, and making plans for our first full production line. There is more going on in solar than you might be aware of. It is happening, and hopefully soon. With the amount of power that hits the planet every day, we would be fools not to try to use it! Now that's an interesting job, biker! Really are many thigns going on with solar... although proficency race is a bit stuck, amorphous solar cells are terribly promising in what surfaces are concerned. Flexible film is just an application... they're developing cells that could be "painted" on surfaces, so you could turn your whole southern façade into a solar power plant. Further, this technology may be unexpensive enough to be applied even on surfaces without direct sunlight rather use them to gather scattered light... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do not take life too seriously; nobody lives to tell.
|
|
|
Biker Dude
A TRUE Liberal!
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-117
Posts: 2,101
Live to Ride, Ride to Live
|
|
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2007, 04:25:52 AM » |
|
That one is quite a long ways off. Good idea though. Monolithically integrated. That's where it is at today. Like you said solar has been around. The old fashioned heavy on glass cells can be about 25% efficient. We are currently looking for 14% cells. We'll get there, just a matter of time.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Who will watch the watchers?Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about?
|
|
|
|
Gojira
|
|
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2007, 07:46:13 AM » |
|
I wouldn't quite term it support. More like I like people to have the facts. Personally I think you are a little too cavalier about waste storage and containment. It IS an issue, and it is not as solved as you make it sound. I think nuclear is a viable short term option, but it is incredible capital cost heavy.... fo' shizzle.
i don't understand what everyone has against solar power. I'd rather have my subsidies go there than to some toxic waste. I work in solar. We are doing R&D on solar cells on flexible thin films, building our pilot production line, and making plans for our first full production line. There is more going on in solar than you might be aware of. It is happening, and hopefully soon. With the amount of power that hits the planet every day, we would be fools not to try to use it! Cavalier attitude? I guess I have been watching too much discovery channel then... Half of what I know about thermodynamics was learned on myth busters.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis.
If life is easy for you, then you aint livin.
|
|
|
HighPlainsDrifter
High Society
Newbie
Karma: +13/-2
Posts: 47
|
|
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2007, 08:43:56 AM » |
|
I would like to see Yucca mountain work out, however it still has several major hurdles to overcome before it begins accepting waste (currently scheduled for 2016-2017). Curently 1,300 people are working on the project. It does sound like the best repository for our (US) waste. I had not heard that it will be 6 miles deep however. http://www.ocrwm.doe.gov/ym_repository/about_project/index.shtmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yucca_Mountain |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great.
Alexis de Tocqueville
|
|
|
|
