IAP Political Forum
September 07, 2008, 01:21:51 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: Support IAP -- join "High Society" with less fuss. Click "paid subscriptions" from your profile.
 
   Home   Blog Forum   Help Search Chat Login Register  
Digg This!
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: polygamist marriage  (Read 577 times)
tadpol
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +27/-19
Posts: 291



View Profile
« on: June 19, 2008, 12:01:23 PM »

I apologize for derailing the discussion of the other thread, but I'm curious about several posted views on the issue.

Cass has posted it is illegal as bigamy, which is true, but isn't it as much a personal issue as other non-traditional arrangements? So far as I know the lobby for polygamist rights isn't very powerful, but I don't understand the difference between this and gay marriage as far as the aclu is concerned.

CharlesMartel posted a desire to add several women to his marriage and seems to suggest it may be bad for children. Which I don't really understand how to reconcile.

Iamme and Abraxas seem to offer the name and legal protections of marriage to any people desiring it, which I'm not sure I understand. Is this an intentional shaping of society like a super slowmo Cultural Revolution, is it disinterest, or do I miss the point entirely?

I by no means mean to limit the discussion to these posters or views, I'd appreciate any insight.
Logged
IamMe
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +39/-123
Posts: 1,255



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 12:16:20 PM »

My position is simply that consenting adults should be allowed to enter any form of marriage that they wish. A narrow definition of marriage is just another example of the State imposing its own morality on people, which is overstepping the mark in my opinion.

Either the state should offer marriage to anyone who wants it, or it should not offer marriage to anyone. 
Logged

\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell

If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
Cass
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +23/-60
Posts: 651



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 12:40:49 PM »

Interesting topic tadpol.  Especially considering the choices some might personally. If one goes back to some of Charlie's points you may find it's one more issue that is all about the money with his discussion of DOMA.  Since bigamy is illegal, though there remain many living in polygamous families such as those in TX, AZ and UT, specifically among those who
follow Mormon beliefs even though illegal, how many with single mothers, though the father is hardly absent, are collecting AFDC.  Maybe the ability to also do so is Charlie's basis for
wanting to acquire additional "spouses?"  In many cultures, primarily outside western ones, polygamy is still the norm. And even in some where it is banned, it is quite acceptable for
some to have a "second" wife though they are never officially married.  Hardly, unusual as i learned during the years I lived as a family member of a military member in Japan.
Logged

\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator

The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
CharlesMartel
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +3/-79
Posts: 362



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 01:13:53 PM »

Either the state should offer marriage to anyone who wants it, or it should not offer marriage to anyone.

States "offer" marriage?

You continue to expose yourself.
Logged
tadpol
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +27/-19
Posts: 291



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 01:33:04 PM »

My position is simply that consenting adults should be allowed to enter any form of marriage that they wish. A narrow definition of marriage is just another example of the State imposing its own morality on people, which is overstepping the mark in my opinion.
Well, considering the state is the front man for the people I'm not sure I follow. The state has morality in other places without dispute, how does a line form here?

Quote
Either the state should offer marriage to anyone who wants it, or it should not offer marriage to anyone. 
As long as they meet certain requirements, like age, species and separate immediate families? I don't really understand why government is dealing in marriage, but if we allow a foot in the door I don't get where else we should stop it.


Since bigamy is illegal, though there remain many living in polygamous families such as those in TX, AZ and UT, specifically among those who follow Mormon beliefs even though illegal, how many with single mothers, though the father is hardly absent, are collecting AFDC.
Is this true? I thought that required some sort of oversight and I'd figure polygamists would like to avoid attention. That is very interesting. But I'm not sure what that means, so some people are scamming us, I understand that happens with a lot of programs and I'd bet pretty hard that polygamists don't account for 1% of AFDC fraud. Though I'm not sure how one would get an objective estimate of it.

Quote
In many cultures, primarily outside western ones, polygamy is still the norm. And even in some where it is banned, it is quite acceptable for
some to have a "second" wife though they are never officially married.  Hardly, unusual as i learned during the years I lived as a family member of a military member in Japan.
ok. I've heard of such things, but they way other people's deal with things isn't a precedent I'd really count on.



Either the state should offer marriage to anyone who wants it, or it should not offer marriage to anyone.

States "offer" marriage?

You continue to expose yourself.
I hope you mean something more clever than god makes marriages. Marriage licenses existing and judges doing weddings is what's being discussed.
Logged
Cass
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +23/-60
Posts: 651



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 04:39:48 PM »

tadpol, I haven't a clue how much AFDC is used by polygamous families other than anecdotal information provided by a friend who worked with the welfare department in the community where i lived prior to moving to Sacramento 18 years ago.  However, though Wikipedia is not my usual choice for information I found the article on polygamy and other
forms of marriage quite interesting.  You might as well.  During the years when I taught Cultural Anthropology at the community college level the various forms of marriage with examples of the primary cultures that practiced plural marriage were a curriculum requirement for the course.  In the U.S. the primary marriage pattern is considered to be serial
monogamy and the divorce statistics would tend to prove that point.  Haven't taught in years and I'm actually not interested enough in the topic to dig out old text books to add that
info to the discussion.  The Wiki post is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy


Logged

\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator

The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +197/-195
Posts: 3,662


"You do not speak for the rest"


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 06:19:56 PM »

I only say it should be legal because I see no basis for it to be illegal.
Logged

Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky

... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
Toaster
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +47/-129
Posts: 702


Burnin' for you


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2008, 04:33:00 AM »

Either the state should offer marriage to anyone who wants it, or it should not offer marriage to anyone.

States "offer" marriage?

You continue to expose yourself.
You haven't heard of civil marriage? Justice of the Peace, etc.? Hell in PA you can have a 'Quaker' marriage that only requires some witnesses sign a piece of paper. No need for any sort of minister.

I believe IamMe is right - the state has no business in the marriage business - however, since it is, it may not discriminate. It isn't up to the state to decide how religious functions are practiced.
Logged

DISCUSSION, n.
A method of confirming others in their errors.
 

The Devil\\'s Dictionary
Ahkenaten
Forum Administrator
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +107/-132
Posts: 1,340


Professor of Angular Mil and Applied Narcotics


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2008, 06:42:45 AM »

I believe marriage should remain unchanged. Marriage should remain as it is, defined by God, as a sacred bond between a man and six swim suit models. What's wrong with that?



Ahk
Logged


You cant spell missile without the word miss.

The Patriot
Newbie
*

Karma: +1/-30
Posts: 34



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2008, 08:17:40 AM »

it's just hypocrisy;This society is the most unofficial polygamist on earth; more than 40% has out-marriage relationships.

Polygamy is just a "trade-off" between two persons or three, why it should be banned? all people are free to achieve contract that don't hurt morals or human life.

The most absurd thing is to ban polygamy under pretext that it's  degrading women while porn -which treat them like animals-is allowed !!
Logged

\"Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.\" -Malcolm X
Irwin
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +44/-79
Posts: 1,013


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 08:53:34 AM »

it's just hypocrisy;This society is the most unofficial polygamist on earth; more than 40% has out-marriage relationships.

Polygamy is just a "trade-off" between two persons or three, why it should be banned? all people are free to achieve contract that don't hurt morals or human life.

The most absurd thing is to ban polygamy under pretext that it's  degrading women while porn -which treat them like animals-is allowed !!

That's because marriage and monogamy are not natural to the species. Marriage origniated as a property agreement. "I give my daughter and 15 cows and ten acres for you to have and to hold and cement an alliace between my village and yours. When there was no property changing hands no marriage was necessary.
Logged
CharlesMartel
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +3/-79
Posts: 362



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 11:04:49 AM »

I only say it should be legal because I see no basis for it to be illegal.

State law is the basis Roll Eyes
Logged
CharlesMartel
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +3/-79
Posts: 362



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2008, 11:06:28 AM »

Polygamy is just a "trade-off" between two persons or three, why it should be banned? all people are free to achieve contract that don't hurt morals or human life.

It's about CHILDREN, oh clueless ones.
Logged
Toaster
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +47/-129
Posts: 702


Burnin' for you


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2008, 11:22:19 AM »

I believe marriage should remain unchanged. Marriage should remain as it is, defined by God, as a sacred bond between a man and six swim suit models. What's wrong with that?



Ahk

Which marriage?

Traditional marriage where women are dowryed off to older men as a family business transaction?

That is traditional western marriage for more years than not - this marriage for love stuff is new.
Logged

DISCUSSION, n.
A method of confirming others in their errors.
 

The Devil\\'s Dictionary
The Patriot
Newbie
*

Karma: +1/-30
Posts: 34



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2008, 11:22:39 AM »

I believe marriage should remain unchanged. Marriage should remain as it is, defined by God, as a sacred bond between a man and six swim suit models. What's wrong with that?



Ahk

polygamy is allowed and practiced in the Three Religions and I can prove it by texts.
Logged

\"Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.\" -Malcolm X
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.4 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC
Joomla Bridge by JoomlaHacks.com
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.186 seconds with 25 queries.