I was having trouble not understanding how you can't see how much your post is insensitive, but I guess it is difficult for you to grasp the humanitarian impact of the missing people.
It isn't insensitive at all. I was bringing forth a fact that was glossed over by the original poster. Again, Abraxas was trying to make the point (the way I read it) that the 199 bodies somehow nullified the idea that Israel came out weaker because of this deal. I was trying to bring up the very relevent point that those 199 bodies were not from last week, or last month, or even the last 10 years. It was from 30 years of near-continuous conflict. You've mentioned a number of times how much you despise (hate their guts) some group - I think you were talking about Palestinians, maybe Hezbollah. To me, this is pretty much in tune with my argument. 30 years of hate, mistrust, fighting, death on both sides, anger, you name it. I didn't cause you guys to start fighting, you are doing that on your own. The fact is that over 30 years of all this negative energy has lead to some pretty awful things from and against all sides involved.
This is a humanitarian file by excellence, and when you say something like what you said above, for people with firsthand experience, this seems like a very cold blooded thing to say.
And while you believe that it is hardly a huge body count considering that it is over a period of 30, the fact that it has been over 30 years makes the matter all the more inhuman.
The power is in YOUR hands to stop it, not mine. You (3rd person) deserve just as much blame as anyone else for 30 years of conflict. You misinterpret my argument or at least try to see some malice in my comments. I am not apathetic to the suffering that people have endured, nor would I ever make a case that their lives are worthless. I was debating the idea that Israel made out just as well as Hezbollah, an idea clearly faulty for a number of reasons as I've attempted to point out.
It is not only about the dead. It is about the living. And it is not only about the sentimental value, and the fact that these people are burried in a mass grave on enemy land where you can't even visit, there is also a very pragmatic side to the file.
There are women who for 30 years, could not move on with their lives and leave the war behind and maybe remarry and start over because they are still legally married. There are children who remain in poverty because inheritance procedures cannot be made as the father is legally alive. There are entire families, brothers, sisters, wives and children, first, second and even 3rd generations all tangled in legal fights because of the missing person "that hardly counts". So much misery comes from not knowing if a person is dead or alive, both emotionally and legally, that with each passing year, the issue becomes more complicated and generations are destroyed.
And you call me insensitive? What on Earth makes you think this circumstance is unique to you and your people? You don't think countless millions of people have suffered in the same way from every single country on this Earth? Sometimes the scenarios are different, but don't pretend that the struggle to cope with the unknown is more difficult on a personal level in Lebanon than it is in Baghdad, Paris, or the suburbs of Chicago. And if you've got legal systems that work against you, don't throw it in my face as me being cold-blooded, disgusting, or blood-thirsty. The shortcomings of Lebanese jurisprudence has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
So it would have been much much better if the body count were indeed for a year or two rather than for over a quarter of a century. And even if you like to assume that ALL those were terrorists until proven otherwise,(as this seems easier for you), unless you want to consider that the families of these people are all terrorists, including wives and children, then NOT seeing the insensitive meaning of your post is above me.
No no, stop right there. I didn't say that all 199 bodies were those of terrorists. You made the assumption that I believe that, and you are dead wrong. Believe me, I know that mistakes are made, I know that in some cases innocent people are killed knowingly by Israelis. But from what I can tell, Israel takes far more pains to spare innocent life than, say, Hezbollah. And how am I supposed to feel about those families Cedar? Any different than the families of the girl who's skull was crushed by a man just released and then greeted as a hero by your countrymen? Are you serious? This is comical.
If I have to avoid speaking about casualties for fear of insulting the familes, talking about conflicts or history is going to be damn difficult, don't you think?
Maybe saying disgusting was a bit harsh, but this is disgusting in Lebanon because of the humanitarian aspect and it is considered inhumane to talk about the missing like this. But then you are American, and you can never understand the misery associated with war.
And with that Cedar, you've come full circle. Because Americans don't know what it is like to lose family and friends in war. Because Americans don't know what it is like to have to care for a veteran missing an arm, leg, maybe all four of their limbs, or have burns covering 90% of their bodies. Because Americans have never seen their countrymen attacked and jumping out of a building from 100 floors up because the fire inside was too much to bare.
You don't know the first thing about me or people that I've known who are missing body parts or who will never come home. What makes you think suffering from war is isolated to you and yours?
And the Israeli wives and children of the soldiers deserved the same. Would it have been better for them to wait 30 years only to say after that: OK, but it was only 2 over 30 years?
I wasn't talking to wives and children of the Israelis. I was talking to Abraxas. Like I said, Israel didn't even get back a single living person. What would it take for that to happen? How many child killers would Israel have to let go to get back a single living soul? 50, 100, 1000? More?
There are some very touchy subjects, and dead people are among those. While Americans love to talk numbers, Israelis and Lebanese are more about individuals. I am allergic to what you said above.
No, you're ignorant to what I said above. You disagreed with what I had to say, and then made the mistake of attacking my character because you had no argument to the contrary. Now, because I'm American, I don't "understand" the individual cost of war according to you. We Americans could NEVER be about individuals in your mind. Were you telling that to the droves of rabid fans of Kuntar, the child-killer, when he was greeted like a rock star by YOUR countrymen? No?
Pity.
