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Retro Fit
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« on: July 18, 2008, 05:32:46 PM » |
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Phil Gramm said Friday that he is stepping down as co-chairman of Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign amid criticism for saying last week that "we have sort of become a nation of whiners." I'm sure everyone in the McCain camp will miss him terribly, but it couldn't of happened to a nicer scab.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 05:34:53 PM » |
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As an economic advisor, which is what he was, he's a train wreck. The fact that McCain had him as an economic advisor at all speaks very poorly of McCain.
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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Retro Fit
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 05:43:42 PM » |
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As an economic advisor, which is what he was, he's a train wreck. The fact that McCain had him as an economic advisor at all speaks very poorly of McCain. And I've heard McCain introduce Gramm as "his close personal friend and adviser". They are cut from the same arrogant, elitist cloth.
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Wiglaf
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2008, 08:01:34 AM » |
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Phil Gramm said Friday that he is stepping down as co-chairman of Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign amid criticism for saying last week that "we have sort of become a nation of whiners." I'm sure everyone in the McCain camp will miss him terribly, but it couldn't of happened to a nicer scab.
Gramm, compassionate conservative  .
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight. James Welch Winter in the Blood
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it. Judge Learned Hand
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2008, 05:53:35 AM » |
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Phil Gramm said Friday that he is stepping down as co-chairman of Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign amid criticism for saying last week that "we have sort of become a nation of whiners." I'm sure everyone in the McCain camp will miss him terribly, but it couldn't of happened to a nicer scab.
Gramm, compassionate conservative  . Here's what the economist Paul Krugman says. He sums it up nicely: The classic definition of a gaffe is when someone accidentally tells the truth. Phil Gramm committed a slightly different sin: he accidentally said what he, and most of the conservative movement, really believe.What you have to realize is that the faith of modern conservatives in tax cuts and deregulation is absolute, not susceptible to refutation by evidence. After all, if evidence mattered, they would have been shaken by the boom after Bill Clinton raised taxes; instead, they first denied the boom, then ascribed it to the lagged effects of Reagan’s tax cuts. (I tried to point out that if credit for the booming economy in 1999 went to the 1981 tax cut — that is, if current prosperity is the result of policy actions 18 years ago — then Ronald Reagan should have given credit for “morning in America” to Lyndon Baines Johnson. But somehow that argument didn’t fly.) So what can conservatives say about our current economic troubles? There have been a few attempts to blame Bill Clinton — and Grover Norquist is saying that it’s all Nancy Pelosi’s fault. But mainly, the attitude Phil Gramm takes — an attitude shared by many on the right — is that we know that tax cuts work, so they must have worked. If Americans are unhappy with the state of the economy, the problem lies with public attitudes, not actual economic performance. Bunch of whiners! The alternative — that supply-side policies really failed — is literally unthinkable.
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 07:23:42 AM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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neue regel
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2008, 09:07:59 AM » |
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After all, if evidence mattered, they would have been shaken by the boom after Bill Clinton raised taxes If Clinton's tax increases were indeed the cause of the economic 'boom' of the 1990s as Mr. Krugman suggests, then I would also have to wonder why those same policies left us in a recession that George Bush inherited.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2008, 07:28:50 PM » |
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After all, if evidence mattered, they would have been shaken by the boom after Bill Clinton raised taxes If Clinton's tax increases were indeed the cause of the economic 'boom' of the 1990s as Mr. Krugman suggests, then I would also have to wonder why those same policies left us in a recession that George Bush inherited. The tax hikes didn't *cause* the boom, but they didn't have the catastrophic negative effect that conservatives always predict that tax hikes have. The economy was recovering from a recession in 1993, which is the perfect time to raise taxes (kind of like 2009 will be, too). The booming economy and higher tax rates eventually resulted in a surplus. But in 1993 conservatives warned of a terrible recession or even a depression because of the tax hike on the richest 1.5% of Americans. Krugman is just reminding us all just how wrong they were, and used that bit of history as an example of how, um, reality runs contrary to their most precious ideology. As for the 2001 recession, it was to be expected, as the business cycle of the 1990s had run its course. Business cycles seem to be deeply embedded in our economics, although no one really understands why. Fiscal (tax and spending) policy only seem to have a minor effect on these cycles. But you'll never see conservatives admitting it.
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2008, 07:34:45 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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neue regel
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2008, 04:24:37 AM » |
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Fiscal (tax and spending) policy only seem to have a minor effect on these cycles. But you'll never see conservatives admitting it. I've always believed in the concept of business cycles. As a matter of fact, what is happening right now is very similar to what was happening 8 years ago, only for different reasons.
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Irwin
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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2008, 07:13:41 AM » |
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Fiscal (tax and spending) policy only seem to have a minor effect on these cycles. But you'll never see conservatives admitting it. I've always believed in the concept of business cycles. As a matter of fact, what is happening right now is very similar to what was happening 8 years ago... Minus the boom.
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neue regel
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 07:27:14 AM » |
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If memory serves, the boom was busting around this time before the compete fizzle.
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Irwin
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 08:23:38 AM » |
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If memory serves, the boom was busting around this time before the compete fizzle.
No boom this past 8 years. In 1998, it was still booming all the way into 2000. Sigh..now were going to "debate" that the Bush years were as good as the Clinton in terms of a boom. Then I'll show it wasn't. Then you'll say only because of 9/11 and Clinton got lucky with a boom. I'll show that the boom was at least helped by raising taxes to pay Reagan's debt, which kept vital credit tied up. Then we'll go around and around. JPN will have charts. You'll have coy comments. The debate will veer of because in the end you'll lose this one. And we''ll end up talking about whether there WMD. So boring.
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Patton
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2008, 08:33:39 AM » |
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What administration reaped the benefits of the logarithmic expansion of the home computer/internet industry? Microsoft peak prices, stock splits, AOL, Cisco, IBM, AMD, Yahoo, etc, etc?
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 08:35:29 AM by Patton »
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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neue regel
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 08:35:53 AM » |
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No boom this past 8 years. In 1998, it was still booming all the way into 2000. Our memories differ. I remember rather vividly Bush talking about the economy and its need for stimulation in his campaign speeches and him getting flak for 'talking down the economy.' I suppose he was right as the economy officially dropped into recession in March 2001.
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Irwin
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2008, 09:38:35 AM » |
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What administration reaped the benefits of the logarithmic expansion of the home computer/internet industry? Microsoft peak prices, stock splits, AOL, Cisco, IBM, AMD, Yahoo, etc, etc?
The computer revolution benefitted from 8 years of peace, rather than 5 years of unnecessary war. That industry began booming in 1996, three years after Clinton's tax hike began paying off Reagan's debt, which freed up credit and capital to support a boom? Unfortunately, the next boom will require paying off Bush's debt, which is so enormous, that available credit and capital will be lost for some time.
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Patton
Global Moderator
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 09:44:33 AM » |
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So....which administration BENEFITTED from the "boom?"
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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