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Author Topic: Computer Voting Machines. What can be hacked, will be hacked  (Read 490 times)
freethinker
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2008, 06:52:16 AM »

 Lets not forget Diebold CEO Walden O'dell. Have you forgotten him Neue? Have you forgotten how  he promised to deliver Ohio to GWB...and did?  How he resigned as soon as an investigation started? Doesn't this demonstate how vulnerable an election can be to partisan shenanigans when computers are involved? The simple fact that there are STILL unanswered questions in regards to this unresolved  matter should set off alarms to all Americans.
 The voting place and how it is run must be above all suspicion if democracy is to function as intended. Even the question of impropriety destroys the trust required for the process to work.
 To dismiss these questions as "little to no problem" is irresponsible IMHO.
 http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2005/12/walden-odell-diebold-ceo-who-stole.html
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 06:53:59 AM by freethinker » Logged

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neue regel
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 07:11:27 AM »

Was there ultimately any evidence that pointed to Diebold foul play? If there is strong evidence that votes were stolen, I think that certainly opens up more discussion and should open up some indictments.
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 05:06:47 PM »

Scan-Tron


Machine countable, with a paper trail.

Be sure and make the bubbles large and the forms logically organized to prevent confusion over which bubble to fill in. I myself wasn't very amused when terms like "laughing stock" were being circulated about our elections system some 7 years ago. Touch screen voting has the potential for much worse.
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2008, 09:29:50 PM »

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The majority of the machines are already in the polling places. If they are to be tampered, it will have to be done manually like the scientists from Princeton.

  A leading cyber-security expert and former adviser to Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) says he has fresh evidence regarding election fraud on Diebold electronic voting machines during the 2002 Georgia gubernatorial and senatorial elections.

Stephen Spoonamore is the founder and until recently the CEO of Cybrinth LLC, an information technology policy and security firm that serves Fortune 100 companies. At a little noticed press conference in Columbus, Ohio Thursday, he discussed his investigation of a computer patch that was applied to Diebold Election Systems voting machines in Georgia right before that state's November 2002 election.

Spoonamore is one of the most prominent cyber-security experts in the country. He has appeared on CNN's Lou Dobbs and ABC's World News Tonight, and has security clearances from his work with the intelligence community and other government agencies, as well as the Department of Defense, and is one of the world’s leading authorities on hacking and cyber-espionage.

In 1995, Spoonamore received a civilian citation for his work with the Department of Defense. He was again recognized for his contributions in 2004 by the Department of Homeland Security. Spoonamore is also a registered Republican and until recently was advising the McCain campaign.

Spoonamore received the Diebold patch from a whistleblower close to the office of Cathy Cox, Georgia’s then-Secretary of State. the whistleblower -- who wishes to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation -- said that he became suspicious of Diebold's actions in Georgia for two reasons. The first red flag went up when the computer patch was installed in person by Diebold CEO Bob Urosevich, who flew in from Texas and applied it in just two counties, DeKalb and Fulton, both Democratic strongholds. The source states that Cox was not privy to these changes until after the election and that she became particularly concerned over the patch being installed in just those two counties.

The whistleblower said another flag went up when it became apparent that the patch installed by Urosevich had failed to fix a problem with the computer clock, which employees from Diebold and the Georgia Secretary of State’s office had been told the patch was designed specifically to address.Some critics of electronic voting raised questions about the 2002 Georgia race even at the time. Incumbent Democratic Sen. Max Cleland, who was five percentage points ahead of Republican challenger Saxby Chambliss in polls taken a week before the vote, lost 53% to 46%. Incumbent Democratic Governor Roy Barnes, who led challenger Sonny Perdue in the polls by eleven points, lost 51% to 46%. However, because the Diebold machines used throughout the state provided no paper trail, it was impossible to ask for a recount in either case.

Concerned by the electoral outcome, the whistleblower approached Spoonamore because of his qualifications and asked him to examine the Diebold patch.

A Ohio press conference was organized by Cliff Arnebeck and three other attorneys, who had filed a challenge to the results of the 2004 presidential election in Ohio in December, 2004. That challenge was withdrawn, but in August 2006 Arnebeck filed a new case, King Lincoln Bronzeville Neighborhood Association v. Blackwell, alleging civil rights violations in the 2004 voting. The case was stayed in 2007. On Thursday, Arnebeck filed a motion to remove the stay and allow fresh investigation.

     Spoonamore confirmed that the patch included nothing to repair a clock problem. Instead, he identified two parallel programs, both having the full software code and even the same audio instructions for the deaf. Spoonamore said he could not understand the need for a second copy of the exact same program -- and without access to the machine for which the patch was designed, he could not learn more. Instead, he said he took the evidence to the Cyber-Security Division of the Department of Justice and reported the series of events to authorities. The Justice Department has not yet acted on his report.At the Ohio press conference yesterday, the former McCain adviser said Michael Connell, of the Republican Internet development firm New Media Communications, had designed a system that made possible the real-time "tuning" of election tabulators once Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell had outsourced the hosting of vote counting on the same server which hosted GOP campaign IT systems. He said he didn't believe Connell was behind the alleged fraud, but that he should be considered a key witness.

Spoonamore also confirmed he's working with Connell on overseas election issues and that Connell is now working as John McCain's IT developer.

Connell has a long history with the Republican Party's IT infrastructure. In 2001, for example, he set up MajorityWhip.gov for then House Majority Whip Tom DeLay. He also helped built georgewbush.com, as well as the Ohio GOP site Spoonamore referenced.

Sources close to Spoonamore said he was very concerned that he would lose his contracts as a result of coming forward and would take a "large financial hit." These sources added that, despite his concerns, Spoonamore felt obligated to reveal what he knows to the public. "He felt he had no choice as an American citizen but to come forward, and he also knows the likely consequences of him doing so," one source said.

  Theres voting machine anomalies reported all over the web, all one need do is look.  Theres a problem that needs to be addressed just in the shear numbers of complaints.  It raises a reasonable doubt in theses computer voting  systems.  Which raises a reasonable doubt as to the legitimacy of our government.
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2008, 04:50:25 AM »

Without a paper trail, there is no possible way to verify the results.
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DISCUSSION, n.
A method of confirming others in their errors.
 

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neue regel
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2008, 05:05:03 AM »

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Without a paper trail, there is no possible way to verify the results.

I'm all for a paper receipt.
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freethinker
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2008, 09:59:32 AM »

 Why do you suppose Diebold is so dead against paper documentation of each vote on their machines when the people and officials are almost unanimously for it? Why do they insist it will cost so much to retrofit existing diebold machines?
 http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20031216/0946233.shtml
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/12/16/gouging_memo_leaves_diebold_redfaced/
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 10:01:04 AM by freethinker » Logged

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neue regel
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2008, 10:13:51 AM »

Unfortunately, the links don't provide much information.

BTW, if people can hack software easily, why couldn't they have a receipt that prints a vote for (X) but tally a vote for (Y) in the system? For a recount? I doubt it.

I just don't see ample evidence to get too exercised about. We should continue to monitor the situation but as of today, I just haven't see any huge cause for concern.
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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2008, 11:25:12 AM »

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Unfortunately, the links don't provide much information.

BTW, if people can hack software easily, why couldn't they have a receipt that prints a vote for (X) but tally a vote for (Y) in the system? For a recount? I doubt it.

I just don't see ample evidence to get too exercised about. We should continue to monitor the situation but as of today, I just haven't see any huge cause for concern.

  Neue, Come on, Man....I know your not that naive.  Theres more then ample evidence.  I just posted ample evidence from one of the most prominent cyber-security experts in the country.  What more do you need?
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Cass
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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2008, 02:23:20 PM »

I'm not sure if there is any way to totally provide a secure method of voting unless there is a way to totally remove
the human factor. Each election I carefully fill in the bubbles on the permanent absentee ballot, review it to make sure the bubbles are in the appropriate locations, place it in the envelop, place correct postage on it, the mail carrier picks it up and from there I must trust it gets delivered and ultimately is appropriately placed in the machine that scans it and is totaled.  In the recent primaries, many absentee ballots took more than a month before the final count was completed. 

Best suggestion might be for no companies who create any form of voting machines would be denied the ability to
lobby any elected official. Oops, there goes, according to some, the First Amendment. If I place a x or more on a
paper ballot, those who count those are also subject to corruption.

It's a problem, but my best suggestion might be a Federal law that mandates a single method for registration, days and hours for voting on a national basis for all, with no exit polls allowed, and no winner declared until every vote is counted and tabulated.  Oops, a violation of the Constitution and states rights?

Guess I'll just have leave this issue to others to resolve, but IMHO it isn't the votes or various methodologies that
are the true underlying problem. The major problem IMO can be laid at the feet, not of those who vote, but those
who don't.  It's the reason we have too many who are elected by a small minority of those eligible to vote.   

 
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« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2008, 07:26:33 PM »

Unfortunately, the links don't provide much information.

BTW, if people can hack software easily, why couldn't they have a receipt that prints a vote for (X) but tally a vote for (Y) in the system? For a recount? I doubt it.

I just don't see ample evidence to get too exercised about. We should continue to monitor the situation but as of today, I just haven't see any huge cause for concern.

I agree with the thought about printing a receipt from a computer system. If you can get in to influence the result, you could probably influence the printout that came out in the process. Any scheme that would give the voter an actual receipt would be a pointless waste of paper, since many people would treat them about like they treat credit card receipts.

I also agree about there not being too much to get worked up about. I've spoken to elections judges about it to voice disapproval. It was disapproval of unsound practice rather than a belief that my vote was being stolen that prompted me. My thought on the situation really comes down to this: There are good systems available that will leave a paper trail, and I have never heard a compelling reason why there is even a need for the investment in the touch screen systems.
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« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2008, 07:51:16 PM »

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I agree with the thought about printing a receipt from a computer system. If you can get in to influence the result, you could probably influence the printout that came out in the process. Any scheme that would give the voter an actual receipt would be a pointless waste of paper, since many people would treat them about like they treat credit card receipts.

I also agree about there not being too much to get worked up about. I've spoken to elections judges about it to voice disapproval. It was disapproval of unsound practice rather than a belief that my vote was being stolen that prompted me. My thought on the situation really comes down to this: There are good systems available that will leave a paper trail, and I have never heard a compelling reason why there is even a need for the investment in the touch screen systems.

  The argument against paper ballets sans computer tabulators is "it will take to long to count the votes".  I can wait.  Why spend ant money on computer voting machines?
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« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2008, 08:56:57 PM »

Yeah, I mean, anyone ever see Man of the Year?  Can't let people like Robin Williams be president...

I am all for filling in bubbles.  People with Parkinson's may not.

Whatever happened to pull the lever? I am sure any old granny can work those things.
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Our democracy has created an environment of indecision at times of impending crisis. 

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« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2008, 09:25:34 PM »

Yeah, I mean, anyone ever see Man of the Year?  Can't let people like Robin Williams be president...

I am all for filling in bubbles.  People with Parkinson's may not.

Whatever happened to pull the lever? I am sure any old granny can work those things.

I don't know who's been tampering with the gears in those things. They're probably rigged. It's all a conspiracy by machinist trade unions. 




I'm sure we could make some type of arrangements for the disabled. I imagine the blind wouldn't find the system particularly useful either.
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Ammunition spitting is him, is it, you listening
Littering written, it\\'s in slippers, get the rebel in him
Sticking it with sinners, sizzlin\\' rhythm, verbally hit him
Did he did it, or did he didn\\'t, admit it -
Rugged Man - Give it Up
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