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Author Topic: House Dems turn out the lights but GOP keeps talking  (Read 288 times)
Reaganite
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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2008, 07:20:08 PM »

Exxon Mobil paid $32.361 billion in taxes in the second quarter, which works out to $4,114 in taxes per second.

... and this proves... what?

That although we take away over $4,000 every second they STILL have profits that rival the GDPs of small, developed nations?

It proves they pay 4 times more in taxes to the GOVERNMENT then they make in profit...

I find it sad you dont think that a bad thing.
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Reaganite
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2008, 07:24:45 PM »

Abraxas, you are on dangerous ground if you want to punish companies for making huge profits.

I don't recall saying that. At all.

But I see an industry that can survive (and survive well) the taxes it pays now, yet conveys high prices to a consumer that is having trouble keeping up. I mean, if we were talking about an industry with competition or alternatives, then I would be far more likely to repeat the same "free market" ideology I do for other issues, but at the moment, there is little choice in the market, which means there IS NO free market, so I can overlook government interference for the time-being.

I don't have time to explain myself better, right now, but I should sometime tomorrow.

So do you believe they will pay more taxes and make less profit or will they raise prices to offset the new tax..  Ie.  I charge 1 dollar for a candy bar, and make a 20 cent profit.. The government says now I must pay an extra 5 cent tax, so I now will charge 1.05 for that candy bar. 

Now imagine if everything sold in america needec candy bars to run......

Carter tried it and it did not work..

Next Obama will call to reinstate teh luxury tax.. ya know the tax that killed the boat business in america.
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Toaster
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2008, 04:52:37 AM »

The Public Figure  Of the Moment: Oil
August 5, 2008 7:03 a.m.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1217925282...=googlenews_wsj


America these days is a great petro-focused nation, from the midsummer political theater targeting an audience strained by high gas prices to oil's prolonged star turn in the spotlight of economic debates.

Oil prices traded lower in the U.S. yesterday and in Asia this morning, following the recent trend in petroleum prices. Yesterday's movement in particular was attributed to the latest economic worries in the U.S. The Commerce Department reported an increase in consumer spending in June, thanks to the economic stimulus of spring tax rebates. But an inflation index for consumer spending -- one closely watched by the Federal Reserve -- showed prices were rising at an unhealthy pace, and the government noted that Americans' disposable income when adjusted for inflation was down 2.6% for the month. (In the Fed's deliberations, oil enjoys the dual role of threat to economic growth and catalyst for inflation.) The Financial Times blames the prospect of slowing economic growth for light sweet crude's dip below $120 a barrel yesterday in trading on the NYMEX, and price at the close of regular trading of $121.41 a barrel, the lowest since early May. Of course, in the past couple months there has been a wider slide in commodity prices for metals and other some natural resources, including oil, as Bloomberg notes.

But commodities traders also must surely be keeping an eye on the role oil is playing in politics. On the darkened floor of the officially recessed House of Representatives, Republicans yesterday resumed a vigil all about the perception of oil prices in the mind of voters -- and what they depict as Congress's failure to pass an energy bill before lawmakers left town. The movement that began Friday with what Politico calls "the passion of a revival meeting" yesterday "was more like a prayer circle," with Republican lawmakers invoking John Quincy Adams' views on slavery and even Moses. "Madam Speaker, let my people vote!" said Rep. Tim Walberg, in reference to Speaker Nancy Pelosi's rejection of their pleas for a special session on the matter. Acknowledging the political resonance of the issue, Minority Leader John Boehner and Minority Whip Roy Blunt urged fellow Republicans to stay at the Capitol and protest, though as Roll Call notes, they themselves didn't show up.

House Democrats dismiss the protests as a "political stunt," as The Hill notes. If so, it is surely not the only political move playing to voters' energy concerns just now. Barack Obama gave a major speech on the subject yesterday, and in his latest tack away from opposition to more oil consumption he called for the government to put 70 million barrels from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve on the market as an immediate salve for high gas prices. He had argued against such a move during the primaries, The Wall Street Journal notes, though he has previously said the reserves could be tapped during an emergency and he declared that "we are in an energy crisis." But it followed another Obama reversal -- relaxing his opposition to offshore oil drilling -- by just a couple days, and Republicans were quick to cry flip-flop. John McCain, who reversed his own opposition to offshore drilling earlier this year, opposes a tapping of the reserve.

Additional offshore drilling, by all accounts, would take years to translate into additional oil and gas supply. While the Obama campaign didn't predict how much gas prices would be affected by tapping the oil reserve, the Washington Post reports, it did note that prices fell by more than 19% within two weeks of President Clinton's decision to make a similar move, which happened to take place amid the 2000 election. In yesterday's speech, Mr. Obama also reiterated his call for a $1,000 "energy rebate" aimed at helping low- and middle-income families to cope with pricey gas. And to pay for it, he seeks a windfall-profits tax on oil companies, as the New York Times reports.

The Times notes that "at the heart of Mr. Obama's proposals is a focus on fostering alternative energy development by investing $150 billion in emerging technologies and renewable fuels." This includes tax credits for car buyers aimed at putting a million fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles on the road. The offer amounts to $4 billion in federal aid, though auto experts tell the Detroit News it would be much more expensive than that. But Mr. Obama was making the speech in Michigan, home to the U.S. car industry as well as a key state come November. And there, the paper says, the biggest impact from Mr. Obama's energy plans may come from the promise of help they bring to a struggling auto sector more than any immediate effect they have on energy prices.

_______________________________

Is it time to clean house? Get rid of every last one of these dirt bags?

If something needs to be done, they do nothing. If they do something, it is the wrong thing and is basically handouts for the folks who helped them get elected.


For Reaganite:

Quote
Acknowledging the political resonance of the issue, Minority Leader John Boehner and Minority Whip Roy Blunt urged fellow Republicans to stay at the Capitol and protest, though as Roll Call notes, they themselves didn't show up.

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Reaganite
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2008, 07:43:30 AM »

Quote
Is it time to clean house? Get rid of every last one of these dirt bags?

If something needs to be done, they do nothing. If they do something, it is the wrong thing and is basically handouts for the folks who helped them get elected.

I agree 100% we shoulf diband congress and hold elections in 2010 where every seat is up for grabs!  No one  that has served more then 4 years would be allowed to run again.

Congress was never meant to be a JOB... it was meant to allow representation of the people BY the people.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2008, 07:53:04 AM »

The oil market is controlled by a cartel.

I believe in economics the term is "oligopoly".

Abraxas, sorry if I misunderstood.  I am all for free market.  I would have free market in every area possible if given a choice.

No problem. You'll find it happens a lot here at IAP.

And just like you, I would have a free market too, if such a thing were possible. But the oil industry only has enough major distributors to count on one hand, so pretending like it's a "free market" just cause there is more then one company is a bad idea.

It's not a free market and it needs to be scrutinized by someone. If the people can't do it directly (we rely too heavily on oil for our cars and homes), then we need to do it indirectly by electing a government that will.

I'm not saying we need to nationalize the oil industry or anything (something Reaganite will pretend I'm saying), I'm just saying it's not working as intended at the moment and the market system can't fix it... so something else needs to be done.

It proves they pay 4 times more in taxes to the GOVERNMENT then they make in profit...

I find it sad you dont think that a bad thing.

Except they're NOT paying more in taxes then they're making in profit.

"Exxon’s profits were nearly $90,000 a minute over the quarter..."
- NYT

... which translates to $15,000 of profit every second.

If you're gonna lie, at least be more subtle about it.

So do you believe they will pay more taxes and make less profit or will they raise prices to offset the new tax..  Ie.  I charge 1 dollar for a candy bar, and make a 20 cent profit.. The government says now I must pay an extra 5 cent tax, so I now will charge 1.05 for that candy bar.  

Now imagine if everything sold in america needec candy bars to run......

Carter tried it and it did not work..

Next Obama will call to reinstate teh luxury tax.. ya know the tax that killed the boat business in america.

How a buisness distributes it's cost is up them. If they want to pay their company execs umpteen million dollars and increase the burden on the buyer, that's fine. If they wanna charge people $4 a gallon even though oil is back down to just under a $120 a barrel, that's fine. If they wanna take advantage of the fact that there are NO alternative energy sources, especially for transportation, that's fine.

But don't come crying to me when government decides to maintain stability in a market that is anything but "free".

We're not selling candy bars, Reaganite and you can't draw comparisons to any other industry because NO industry is as controlled by it's members as this one is.





And now the Republicans are threatening to shutdown the government if Democrats don't lift the ban on offshore drilling.

I hope we don't give in to these terrorists' demands!

Wink
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- Hunter S. Thompson
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