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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2008, 09:13:12 AM » |
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Conservative ideology will never admit that government can be successful at anything but war. Name me something where government shows efficiency and I'll be happy to discuss. The overhead of Medicare is about 4%. The overhead of private health insurance companies is between 10 and 20 percent. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2008, 09:18:41 AM » |
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Social Security is an abysmal failure because of government mis-management. Exactly. What sane one of us would hire someone to manage our assets with the same results our government gets us with SS? Social Security is the most successful and popular government program ever. It has pulled and is pulling millions of people out of poverty. It is funded at least through 2041, and with a minor tweek, such as increasing the income cap on contributions to $250,000, will be sound into infinity. The return on the assets is what U.S. government bonds return. Or maybe you want to put it all into, say, Enron stock? |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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neue regel
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« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2008, 09:53:49 AM » |
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The return on the assets is what U.S. government bonds return. Or maybe you want to put it all into, say, Enron stock? I would prefer to put my money in a well diversified mutual fund and return about 10-12%. |
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +216/-218
Posts: 4,192
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2008, 10:07:12 AM » |
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The return on the assets is what U.S. government bonds return. Or maybe you want to put it all into, say, Enron stock? I would prefer to put my money in a well diversified mutual fund and return about 10-12%. Ditto. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Reaganite
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« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2008, 11:13:21 AM » |
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Social Security is an abysmal failure because of government mis-management. Exactly. What sane one of us would hire someone to manage our assets with the same results our government gets us with SS? Social Security is the most successful and popular government program ever. It has pulled and is pulling millions of people out of poverty. It is funded at least through 2041, and with a minor tweek, such as increasing the income cap on contributions to $250,000, will be sound into infinity. The return on the assets is what U.S. government bonds return. Or maybe you want to put it all into, say, Enron stock? LOL... omfg.. this is a pyrimid scam perpatrated on millions of americans. In 2020 how many people will be working for every person collectig SS? in 1970 how many were working for each person collecting? Its a SCAM... SS is nothimg more then the state being robin hood.... robbing from the workers to provide for those not working. |
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You get what you pay for America... Welcome to the Obamanation.....
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IamMe
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« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2008, 11:53:39 AM » |
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robbing from the workers to provide for those not working.
And? Would you rather they... starved, or something? |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2008, 01:57:45 PM » |
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The return on the assets is what U.S. government bonds return. Or maybe you want to put it all into, say, Enron stock? I would prefer to put my money in a well diversified mutual fund and return about 10-12%. Wouldn't we all? Good luck with that 10-12%. Also, would you still be willing to do that if it means that you plunge millions of retirees into poverty? Or would you rather just borrow the trillion or so that would be needed to replace the SS contributions? |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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Wiglaf
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« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2008, 04:41:27 PM » |
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Obviously you're unaware of the economic effects of the G.I. Bill or the creation of the interstate highway system on post-World War II America. I'm also curious which country has ever successfully educated most its citizens privately. There are certainly other examples, but I'll let you chew on these for a while. As a fierce advocate of school reform I certainly see plenty of places where we could do better, but has any nation done as well without governmental assistance in this vital need? I educate my kids privately and successfully....My wife is a school teacher for the Los Angeles Unified School District. I have met and am friends with at least 50 other teachers and/or employees of L.A.U.S.D. Not one of them....not one..... who has kids, has them enrolled in a public school.....Not one. You know why? Because public schools are hazardous. filled with gangland kids created by the welfare system and drug prohibition , who's prison mentalities and violent nature make for a poor learning environment. The government dropped the ball long ago...probably right after they connected Maine to California with 2 lanes of asphalt and concrete. Every promise concerning education is broken...for example, when California voted on the Lottery we were told, "vote for the lottery, the funds will go to our schools"...What a load of crap. This has been going on for decades. The government does certain things right...Education is not one of them. You're conflating and confusing a number of issues here. First the lottery is sham and I won't stoop to defend that regressive tax. Second, California's schools were among the best in the nation prior to Proposition 13 and a decline in year to year funding has hurt them. Third, no school, even a great one, is a panacea that can magically make violent neighborhoods a paradise on Earth. Disparities between rich and poor school districts exist and LAUSD is clearly atrocious and it will continue to be while we have a system that weights rational career decision-making overwhelmingly in favor of teachers moving to better-paying and less stressful jobs in suburban areas. That is true whether you go to L.A., St. Louis, Washington D.C. or virtually any other urban area in the U.S. I seem to decry the injustice of it at least once a week, but that still doesn't address the issue of public or private. The Bronte sisters of 19th century literary note attended cut-rate private schools(by our definition of the term) in Britain during an era without support for universal schooling on the government's dime and their experiences showed a system less equal in access to a quality education than our own. Can you identify a nation which has achieved universal or near universal access to schooling without governmental support for at least half of the kids? If not, merely reciting the ills of our own system(which are numerous) doesn't make the alternative likely to be any better. |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 09:53:00 PM by Wiglaf »
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. . . sometimes it seems that one has to lean into the wind to stand straight.
James Welch Winter in the Blood
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution,no law, no court can even do much to save it.
Judge Learned Hand
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Cass
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« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2008, 05:04:18 PM » |
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The "greed is good, I've got mine, screw you" typical attitude of the GOP indoctrinated continues with the usual Social Security crap, but becomes even worse.
neue regal, you're a big boy with some kids right? How did you acquire them? Need some information related to the birds and bees? Unless, there is an epidemic of virgin births it takes two to tango. Unemployment, unless one has reached the point of complete starvation doesn't limit the human sex drive. In reality, unemployment might even allow more time and/or energy to the usual dual participants required to procreate. Taking away contraception, as McCain would do, or even the availability of a condom, doesn't end the activity. Surely daddy, you must be aware of that fact of life. Maybe your attitude toward women which contains, IMHO, considerable misogyny might be one reason for some of your attempted points about how pregnancy occurs, why, when or by whom?
Maybe you should broaden your knowledge past the small bubble you appear to reside in. Even though you would prefer to keep every penny you earn, in reality even the GOP despised contribution to the Social Security system has been one of those additional FDR New Deal creations that has worked and kept many of the elderly out of abject
poverty. Is it for the "greed is good gang" one that is efficient? Perhaps not in it's current form. Even I agree there are reasonable ways to reform that system, but since it's creation it has been the goal of your chosen Party to decimate it totally. Maybe your too young to remember the much heralded Gingrich Contract For (or some might suggest on) America. The decimation of Social Security, though not in those terms was a factor. Then there are those of your persuasion who would steal food out of the mouths of babes and the elderly if it would add to your "portfolio."
It's not so much you feel no personal responsibility for any othera than those you may have accepted the obligation as a parent to care for, but live in complete denial a social contract should even exist. If you don't understand what the "social contract" might be, google it.
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 05:07:48 PM by Cass »
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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
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neue regel
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« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2008, 05:37:41 PM » |
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Good luck with that 10-12% No problem. The DJ has averaged 12% any given 10 year period since its inception. It's a done deal. Also, would you still be willing to do that if it means that you plunge millions of retirees into poverty? No. Let's get creative and find a way to get the government out of the retirement business. |
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2008, 07:22:39 PM » |
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Its a SCAM... SS is nothimg more then the state being robin hood.... robbing from the workers to provide for those not working. "...those not working." You mean, like, retired people? More than 9-in-10 retirees now get Social Security benefit payments each month. For two-thirds of the elderly, Social Security is their major source of income. For a third of the elderly, Social Security is virtually their only income.“Social Security is one of the greatest achievements of the American government, and one of the deepest commitments to the American people. For more than six decades it has protected our elderly against poverty and assured young people of a more secure future. It must continue to do this important work for decades to come.” --President George W. Bush http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10055.html (Of course the lying s.o.b. tried to destroy it, but that's just George being a Republican). |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 07:31:16 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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freethinker
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« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2008, 07:42:56 PM » |
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robbing from the workers to provide for those not working.
And? Would you rather they... starved, or something? Yes IaM ...I'm afraid Bonzo would.  Chimps can be mean. |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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Irwin
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« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2008, 09:14:11 AM » |
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I live near Downtown Los Angeles. Everyday I see more and more people, old ,young and middle aged starving on the streets. It's like a damn parade of filthy, mumbling, shopping cart pushing transients walking down the street with a big urine stain on their tattered pants and crapping on the sidewalk. Social Security is an abysmal failure because of government mis-management. The new deal was nothing short of departmentalized socialism. Our government is nothing more then departmentalized socialism.
Once again, when it comes to anything Federal, we find you leading with your gut, shouting from ignorance and swinging wildly off the barstool. 1. Um, yeah, Social Security is for retirees not "the poor." 2. It has made the difference between a nation where dying in poverty was the greatest fear of old age and turning into a nation where the best looked-after segment of the population is the elderly. It would be nice if we looked a bit more after kids, rather than endlessly condemning their their parents and as a result condemning their kids. 3. Since there is no "failure" your cries of mismanagement are moot. 4. The homeless you see around you are mostly below retirement age, have mental disease and/or drug addictions. They are there because people like you care more about bitching about taxes and screeching about government than trying to do something to help your fellow Americans. |
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Irwin
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« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2008, 09:32:22 AM » |
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Conservative ideology will never admit that government can be successful at anything but war. Name me something where government shows efficiency and I'll be happy to discuss. Conservative ideology states that you get hold of the government so you can destroy it. Governments across the world are plenty efficient at many things, especially health care. But Republicans would get elected, destroy it, then say, look how inefficient. My best friend's wife took ill in Canada. She saw a doctor immediately for 35 dollars. At home, when she wanted to see a doctor, she had to make multiple calls to make an appointment and they saw her three days later. she pays 700 dollars a month in health insurance and the doctor visit cost $125 dollars. That's efficient? The prescription drug plan? That's a typical Republican government program. Less than a tenth of those who are eligible have signed up. Why? The program is so bafflingly complex, few can figure out what they are signing up for. Why so complex? Because of the government? Wrong. Because of private industry. To give private industry a stake in the plan, they had to come up with something so convoluted that no one can figure it out. In other countries, there is one step: the government covers the cost. Why is it better when government covers the cost? We pay wildly more for medical care than anywhere in the world. Why? The free market. When a government is the purchaser, they can use an economy of scale to force the price down. You friends at the Pharma companies wouldn't want that. |
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neue regel
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« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2008, 10:37:52 AM » |
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Conservative ideology states that you get hold of the government so you can destroy it. Governments across the world are plenty efficient at many things, especially health care. But Republicans would get elected, destroy it, then say, look how inefficient. Saying that 'conservative ideology' destroys government to show it inefficient is not a convincing argument. Case in point...education, which is controlled almost exclusively by liberals. If there has ever been less bang for the buck, nothing jumps to mind. Your friend's wife seemed to have done well. Others aren't as lucky, it seems. http://presidential-race.net/universal-healthcare-failure-documented-canada/ps: I'm not closed to the idea of a universal health care system. It's possible that it could work but I have some doubts. |
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