Patton
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« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2008, 01:09:34 PM » |
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I see no actual reason why universal health insurance can't work in the US. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Give me the fundamentals of the plan like costs, benefits, co-pays, premiums, coverages, services covered, pre-existing ilness clauses, caps, catastrophic illness coverage, etc, etc.....and I'll be glad to pick it apart. "Pie in the sky" fantasises will be ignored. |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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IamMe
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« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2008, 01:47:03 PM » |
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I see no actual reason why universal health insurance can't work in the US. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Give me the fundamentals of the plan like costs, benefits, co-pays, premiums, coverages, services covered, pre-existing ilness clauses, caps, catastrophic illness coverage, etc, etc.....and I'll be glad to pick it apart. "Pie in the sky" fantasises will be ignored. Well, since Obama's plan is the topic of discussion: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdf |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Patton
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« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2008, 02:00:34 PM » |
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I see no actual reason why universal health insurance can't work in the US. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Give me the fundamentals of the plan like costs, benefits, co-pays, premiums, coverages, services covered, pre-existing ilness clauses, caps, catastrophic illness coverage, etc, etc.....and I'll be glad to pick it apart. "Pie in the sky" fantasises will be ignored. Well, since Obama's plan is the topic of discussion: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdfYour "Pie-in-the-sky-position-paper" didn't answer one single question....and so is ignored. I guess he is entitled to his "wish list"........wishes need not be justified. |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2008, 08:51:45 PM » |
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I see no actual reason why universal health insurance can't work in the US. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Give me the fundamentals of the plan like costs, benefits, co-pays, premiums, coverages, services covered, pre-existing ilness clauses, caps, catastrophic illness coverage, etc, etc.....and I'll be glad to pick it apart. "Pie in the sky" fantasises will be ignored. Germany. France. Pick those apart. Oh, that's right, their systems wouldn't work here because they speak a funny language. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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Patton
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« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2008, 05:59:55 AM » |
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And "round and around" we go....on the JPN "spin machine"......... In your "drive by" posting style....you missed the discussion earlier: Primary is the fact that our conservative, free market hertitage blinds so many of our citizens to any alternatives that involve government.
There's also the fact that we speak different languages. Well....I'm impressed....that's a start and admission we are different.
I'm sure if you chose to look further, you'd find even more differences.
Good job.Here |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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IamMe
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« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2008, 11:48:22 AM » |
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I see no actual reason why universal health insurance can't work in the US. Perhaps you can enlighten me? Give me the fundamentals of the plan like costs, benefits, co-pays, premiums, coverages, services covered, pre-existing ilness clauses, caps, catastrophic illness coverage, etc, etc.....and I'll be glad to pick it apart. "Pie in the sky" fantasises will be ignored. Well, since Obama's plan is the topic of discussion: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/HealthCareFullPlan.pdfYour "Pie-in-the-sky-position-paper" didn't answer one single question....and so is ignored. I guess he is entitled to his "wish list"........wishes need not be justified. Did you even read it? It has most of the details you asked for. The rest should be covered by: http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Patton
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« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2008, 12:01:41 PM » |
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I did read it...and like I said....he didn't answer my questions....we can dissect this scam together....
Lets start with my first question:
How much will his plan cost US taxpayers?
His "wish list" has nothing in there.
Your turn.
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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IamMe
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« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2008, 12:17:35 PM » |
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I did read it...and like I said....he didn't answer my questions....we can dissect this scam together....
Lets start with my first question:
How much will his plan cost US taxpayers?
His "wish list" has nothing in there.
Your turn.
Q. How much will it cost us taxpayers?
A. The Obama plan will cost between $50-65 billion a year when fully phased in.
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Patton
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« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2008, 12:38:08 PM » |
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Thanks....Other than phasing out the Bush Tax cuts.....how else will it be paid for....what are these pie-in-the-sky "realized" gains?
How much are they worth?
What if the Bush tax cuts are voted to remain?
Where do the "realized benefits" come from?
What economic implications are to be seen with these gains...for example, will gains come from "outsourcing?"
While you work on those...next question:
Benefits.
For those without insurance now...what benefits will they get....what co-pay, etc?
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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IamMe
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« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2008, 12:47:35 PM » |
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Thanks....Other than phasing out the Bush Tax cuts.....how else will it be paid for....what are these pie-in-the-sky "realized" gains?
How much are they worth?
What if the Bush tax cuts are voted to remain?
Where do the "realized benefits" come from?
What economic implications are to be seen with these gains...for example, will gains come from "outsourcing?"
While you work on those...next question:
Benefits.
For those without insurance now...what benefits will they get....what co-pay, etc?
That's not fair. Stick to one issue at a time. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Patton
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« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2008, 12:57:07 PM » |
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Thanks....
While you work on those...next question:
Benefits.
For those without insurance now...what benefits will they get....what co-pay, etc?
That's not fair. Stick to one issue at a time. Okay....we'll stay with the first topic. Other than phasing out the Bush Tax cuts.....how else will it be paid for....what are these pie-in-the-sky "realized" gains?
How much are they worth?
What if the Bush tax cuts are voted to remain?
Where do the "realized benefits" come from?
What economic implications are to be seen with these gains...for example, will gains come from "outsourcing?" |
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2008, 01:06:43 PM » |
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We're gonna have to raise taxes Patton. The fact that people find this a surprise, despite the 6 year war and reconstruction project with Iraq (with the prospect of war with half a dozen other countries), is depressing. Furthermore, with the expansion of government under President Bush, it's not entirely crazy to suggest we have to find a way to pay for it.
Then you throw in the Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Behr Sterns bail outs PLUS the tax rebates, individual mortgage bail outs and "trickle down" tax cuts to the upper percentile of income earners...
... coupled with our rather deflated GDP growth...
... and it's no wonder we haven't raised taxes already.
So even if you say Obama's plans will be expensive (which I agree, they will be) you have to step back and wonder how we're paying for the stuff we're doing now.
We're gonna have to raise taxes, Patton... and part of it has to do with the fact that we haven't done so already.
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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IamMe
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« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2008, 01:09:19 PM » |
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Thanks....
While you work on those...next question:
Benefits.
For those without insurance now...what benefits will they get....what co-pay, etc?
That's not fair. Stick to one issue at a time. Okay....we'll stay with the first topic. Other than phasing out the Bush Tax cuts.....how else will it be paid for....what are these pie-in-the-sky "realized" gains?
How much are they worth?
A cursory search gives us: A study by the Rand Corporation found
that if most hospitals and doctors offices adopted electronic health records, up to $77
billion of savings would be realized each year through improvements such as reduced
hospital stays, avoidance of duplicative and unnecessary testing, more appropriate drug
utilization, and other efficiencies.
What if the Bush tax cuts are voted to remain?
With the Democrats controlling both houses? Where do the "realized benefits" come from?
See above. What economic implications are to be seen with these gains...for example, will gains come from "outsourcing?"[/i]
No mention of outsourcing from what I can see. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Patton
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« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2008, 01:11:39 PM » |
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On top of all the other things you listed...you just want to volountarily ADD his plan to the top of the heap with NO CLUE on costs and the effects of those costs....I get it.
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood
-George S. Patton
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IamMe
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« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2008, 01:17:34 PM » |
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On top of all the other things you listed...you just want to volountarily ADD his plan to the top of the heap with NO CLUE on costs and the effects of those costs....I get it.
Whereas you want to continue with an unfair system that patently doesn't work...I get it. In any case, there is plenty on costs in the two documents I linked you, if you bothered to read them in any detail. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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