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jpn of Seattle
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« on: August 05, 2008, 04:32:33 PM » |
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Ya gotta admit, it would explain a lot... Here's Obama: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/05/quot-it-s-like-these-guys-take-pride-in-being-ignorant-quot.aspx And in case you missed John Kerry's latest observation to a large audience at a fundraiser in Boston: “I don’t know if you know this. John McCain is looking for someone for vice president who has more economic expertise than he does. So congratulations to all of you, you’re on the short list.” Oh, and here's another knee-slapper. John McCain is promising to "battle big oil." He said it with a straight face, too! http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/08/05/does-tom-cruise-know-about-this.aspx(In case you don't get the joke, McCain raised more than one million dollars from big oil just last month, most of which came after he announced his plan for offshore drilling in a room full of cheering oil executives.) Why watch Comedy Central when you've got politics!?! And those lovable, whacky Republicans just keep the gags coming: --House Republicans issued the boldest claim yet in their three-day energy protest, insinuating on Tuesday morning that their demonstration [speeches to an empty chamber demanding more offshore drilling] may in fact have already begun to lower gas prices. “The market is responding to the fact that we are here talking,” said Republican Rep. John Shadegg. In other news, Republicans credited their speeches for the fact that the sun rose today. |
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« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 06:13:24 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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neue regel
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 06:48:07 PM » |
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"It's Like [Republicans] Take Pride in Being Ignorant" "Making sure your tires are properly inflated, simple thing, but we could save all the oil that they're talking about getting off drilling, if everybody was just inflating their tires and getting regular tuneups," Obama said. "You could actually save just as much." Obama should step lightly (or avoid comedy) when talking about 'ignorance.' |
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freethinker
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2008, 06:43:12 AM » |
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McCain misrepresented Obama's recommendation of tire inflation and tune ups as his only solution to mid east oil dependence. That is a lie . Obama never offered those things as a solution to anything other than a way to conserve gas, lower demand and save money at the pump. Just a week ago McCain agreed that would be a good thing to do saying "Lets do that". Governors Crist and Schwarzenegger agree with the NHTSA that tire inflation and tuneups are a timely and effective way to reduce consumption and lower demand. The Department of Energy estimates that (based on gas costing $3.96/gallon), “you can improve your gas mileage by around 3.3 percent by keeping your tires inflated to the proper pressure” which would ultimately save “up to $0.12/gallon” or, nearly the amount of the federal gas tax ($0.18/gallon), a tax Gingrich supports repealing. Moreover, the auto industry agrees with DoE’s assessment.
But more importantly, Obama is correct to suggest that inflating tires properly and getting regular tune-ups “could save all the oil that they’re talking about getting off drilling” — and by a long shot. According to the Energy Information Administration, if Congress lifted the moratorium on offshore drilling, by 2030, oil crude production in the “lower-48″ outer continental shelf will increase by about 200,000 barrels per day. By contrast, the production offset based on Obama’s proposal will likely approach 800,000 barrels per day, immediately. http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/04/mccain-obama-tires/ Once again the ignorance on this matter is squarely in the republican camp. All experts in the area including auto manufacturers the federal government and scientists, even NASCAR, agree that conservation is a good idea and that tune ups and proper tire inflation are the easiest and most cost effective means to that end...Newt and mcShame call it loony tunes. They are indeed proud to be ignoramuses in the name of partisan hackery. |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 07:23:00 AM by freethinker »
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2008, 07:00:17 AM » |
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I agree that we can and should do everything possible to conserve just as we turn off the faucet after washing our hands to conserve water. It just makes sense.
But didn't my quote from Mr. Obama speak directly to how far that conservation would go...that we could save ALL the oil that we're talking about drilling for? Didn't Obama over-reach?
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freethinker
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2008, 07:39:33 AM » |
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There is of course some controversy over the figures, but no, most experts and annalists agree with Obama's assessment that full conservation would at least match the gains made by offshore drilling. The advantage of Baracks recommendation is that we could see the results in weeks rather than years.
The oil industry has been lobbying to be allowed to drill off shore for many many years . This not a new thing. They will increase their profit by producing domestically. They are using the current situation to their advantage. Their track record has shown that they will not be careful with the environment and domestically produced oil will sell domestically at world market prices. The only advantage to U S consumers is that the slight increase in world production will slightly devalue the price per barrel. For all the effort, the Saudis will only need to tweak their spigot to completely negate the effect.
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2008, 07:49:09 AM by freethinker »
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2008, 08:11:37 AM » |
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For all the effort the Saudis will only need to tweak the spigot to completely negate the effect. That is probably a fair point but in my gut, I have to believe that if we can increase oil on the market along with good efforts with nuclear, wind, coal, natural gas, solar as well as conservation. |
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2008, 03:23:21 PM » |
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Obama isn't letting this one die. Here's his latest riff off the GOP's idiocy regarding alternatives to simply drilling for more oil: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Obama_takes_gauge_opportunity.html?showall"In the coming days it’s going to be interesting to watch this debate between John McCain and John McCain," he said. The problem is that the GOP has never seriously embraced the whole pro-environment, alternatives to drill, drill, drill, let's do something other than pass more tax breaks for the oil industry agenda. Now it's bit them in the ass. About time. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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freethinker
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2008, 03:31:59 PM » |
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Yes Neue ,and it is the "gut " feeling of many millions of Americans as well. It seems quite reasonable and logical that if we, as a nation, need more oil then we, as a nation, should drill more oil. But hold on, it is not the United States that will drill the oil, or own the oil. It will be the multinational corporations that will be doing the drilling and the pumping and the selling. They do not care a fig about the U S or its people. They hold no alliegence to America...at all. Just look at Haliburton. http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Business/Story?id=2942429&page=1 They are in business to make money ,and if they can use your emotions and desperation to make a little more they will. This is exactly what we are seeing right now and McShame is their representative and mouthpiece to play us like a cheap fiddle. We can not drill our way out of this because we (the U S) won't be doing the drilling. The oil companies will be. |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2008, 03:54:07 PM » |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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illy
Hero Member
Karma: +112/-105
Posts: 1,108
illerino if youre not into the whole brevity thing
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2008, 07:53:23 PM » |
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For all the effort the Saudis will only need to tweak the spigot to completely negate the effect. That is probably a fair point but in my gut, I have to believe that if we can increase oil on the market along with good efforts with nuclear, wind, coal, natural gas, solar as well as conservation. I agree. I'd like to see coal liquefaction really kick into gear. That would be my preferred method of getting more fuel onto the market. In the short term I'd like to more nuclear plants built. We should take what we give as incentives to oil (and then some) and put it into solar, fuel cells, and to a lesser degree, wind. |
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Ammunition spitting is him, is it, you listening
Littering written, it\\'s in slippers, get the rebel in him
Sticking it with sinners, sizzlin\\' rhythm, verbally hit him
Did he did it, or did he didn\\'t, admit it -
Rugged Man - Give it Up
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 10:14:47 PM » |
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When did coal become a decent option? And when did people believe "clean coal" was actually any cleaner then regular coal?
Nuclear plants and car batteries now. Solar plants tomorrow.
Now let's get started!
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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freethinker
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2008, 07:42:31 AM » |
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When did coal become a decent option? And when did people believe "clean coal" was actually any cleaner then regular coal?
Nuclear plants and car batteries now. Solar plants tomorrow.
Now let's get started!
Yes lets get started. This situation reminds me of the 60s when our complacency let us get behind in the space race. The Soviets caught us with our pants down and beat us at every milestone along the way. Kennedy called for the goal of the moon and inspired the country to find new technology and science to meet the challenge. This is the kind of inspirational Presidential leadership we need now. Does anyone believe that drill drill drill McSame is the guy that could make this happen? |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2008, 07:52:02 AM » |
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Yes lets get started. This situation reminds me of the 60s when our complacency let us get behind in the space race. The Soviets caught us with our pants down and beat us at every milestone along the way. Kennedy called for the goal of the moon and inspired the country to find new technology and science to meet the challenge. This is the kind of inspirational Presidential leadership we need now. Does anyone believe that drill drill drill McSame is the guy that could make this happen? So far, no leadership in Washington has shown themselves capable of bringing the sides together. Newt has the combination of communications skills as well as mental horsepower to pull it off. He could team up with someone of equal skills on the other side that is willing to spend political capital to do the right thing, and they could get it done. Bill or Hillary could have done it before the primary. They may still have enough standing but it's slipping for them. IMO, Obama will likely not be willing to spend political capital today, or after the election. |
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Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +216/-218
Posts: 4,192
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2008, 08:20:55 AM » |
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Hmmmmmmmm...
Obama/Gingwrich sounds good to me...
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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