Okay let's have a good historical discussion: who do you think are the heroes in the history of the world? Likewise who do you think are the villians?

Mine include the following:
Heroes: MLK, George Washington, Gandhi, Truman, Thomas Jefferson

Villians: Hitler (of course), Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Andrew Jackson, Osama bin Laden, Robert Mugabe, Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-Il, Kim Il-Sung, Slobodan Milosevic, Fred Phelps, the KKK, Bloods, Crips, Aryan Brotherhood, MS-13

gommi,
this way you will end up blaming monkeys for being retarded. Marx was a naive intellectual nothing more than that. I can assure you that communism at it's native form much better than 'American democracy' of same time. Pretty sure micfranklin knows what i mean by 19th-20th century American democracy.


micfranklin,
only few were real villains, rest just unsuccessful leaders who dictate as compensation for their disability to lead. Like Castro or Amin for instance.
you called Truman a hero while Japanese may disagree with you. you can't call a hero to person who used nuclear weapons as act of anger for Pearl Harbor, unsuccessful American prior WWII policy and army disability to fight.

What Forest Whitaker done in 'Last King of Scotland' is nowhere close to what really happens any place around Africa. This is how things run over there, you should take a trip there to understand clearly what Africa and Africans stand for. I know you can feel angry because somewhere in your roots you are African but no, Africans are not what black Americans or Brits are about.
Africa is full lazy, uneducated poor bastards. Like many Asian and South American countries. Those ppl do nothing besides painting with AKs so the only way to rule barbarians is by being barbarian with them. This is what Idi Amin was about with. Failed politician, leader but he got right way of thinking how cows should be lead.

Truman is a bloody killer and i won't blame Roosevelt for nuclear bombing of Japan because Truman sign that.

Oh yeah that wasn't racist or generalized at all

Naming uneducated ,poor retards a lazy barbarian has nothing to do with racism. Racist would be if i would say all blacks are lazy and retarded while we both know there are plenty of examples even around you of black successes. Not to name famous black ppl. What unites them is the fact they do not live in shit holes like Africa or brought from there in their childhood.

What generalizing could be that Africa is the shitest continent of the planet? Look on the stats. Fucking shit hole? They have natural resources unlike my country or Japan. They are brainless barbarians this is why they fail. UN shouldn't send those bastards rice but build them schools and educating teachers so they will ever have a hope.

All human race generalize this way or another which makes your words about my " racist generalizing remark " a fag BS. This was a raw information only.

Subjective indeed.

I find these particularly interesting. Perhaps monotheists such as Jesus and Mohammed introduced more progressive thinking, essentially ending paganism, however they also inspired religious violence such as the crusades. Christianity and Islam divided the world into uncompromising philosophies in conflict with each other.

Jesus was probably a very humble and peaceful man, and you can argue that his teachings were merely misinterpreted, however he always desired the total conversion of the entire population, which would justify religious violence later. In addition, Mohammed was something of a warlord, violently conquering Mecca in an attempt to create an Islamic empire.

Is it not possible that they were real historical figures whose images were altered and exaggerated by religious text?

Hmmmm... Heroes and Villains.

I think a lot of this depends on where you're from, what you believe and what you choose to ignore.

Some might say Thomas Jefferson was a hero... but that hypocrite not only owned slaves but engaged in extramarrital affairs with them, in some cases having kids.

Some might say Hitler was a villain... but he pulled his country out of the defeat of WWI and opposed the greatest nations on earth to ensure the survival of his people against the "tyranny" of others.



Neither man can be a hero or a villain because each man has qualities worth emmulating and deflecting. Thomas Jefferson was, if nothing else, a fantastic write, capable of stirring emotion in politics and making words like "freedom" and "rights" to mean far more then they ever did before. Meanwhile Hitler was, if nothing else, a fantastic public speaker, rallying crowds of the poor and angry into a force that made Germany a capital of the military industry.

Of course, each man had character defects that don't deserve to be mirrored.



So personally, I believe hero worship leads people to miss important information about their heroes because it might endanger their status. Also, outright condemnation for villains seems to forget the accomplishments they made, even other accomplishments were not so admirable.



There is light and dark in all of us, which leads me to believe the architypes of "hero" and "villain" to be outdated and devoid of reality.

Basically, I choose qualities... not people.