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Author Topic: Corporate taxes... in defense of a free market  (Read 355 times)
Abraxas
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« on: August 09, 2008, 09:04:37 PM »

Let me preface this by saying I like the free market. I think, to some extent, a free market works best and I usually use the car industry as a perfect example of what I mean. I hate seeing American companies do poorly, but when they continuously offer a product directly contrary to popular opinion, I almost can't help but get a certain joy out of the fact that their stock is falling and their competitors' are rising.

All it does is prove my point.

But then we run into the problem we're in now.

An opinion in my local Newspaper put it quite well:

Quote from: John Dente of Wilmington, Delaware
With the recent taxpayer bailout of IndyMac, Bear Sterns, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, it is time that we realize that the United States no longer has a capitalist economy led by the mythic CEOs who rose through a Darwinian system to become the alpha males.

In reality America has a corporate economy in which business and government are partners, and corporate welfare drains millions of taxpayer dollars from the treasury as corportions seek to privatize their gains and socialize their losses.

The most prevelant argument I hear against taxing oil companies is that "you shouldn't tax companies that do well", which in a perfect free market (or even a half-decent one) is a reasonable argument. However, the oil market is anything but free, which is why I can overlook the idea of taxing them, especially when they walk away with higher and higher profit margins while the general public strains more and more to buy their product.

In a free market, we could have either gone to any number of other suppliers who have lower prices or moved away from oil entirely... but we can't because we have a government that doesn't think, influenced by an industry that doesn't care, run by a product that doesn't last.

But I'm going off topic. This isn't about the oil industry exclusively, but rather how people complain about oversight in a free market... when even the most casual glance would reveal a market that is anything but "free".

Bad companies should have failed. Why? Cause they're bad companies. They made mistakes and a free market should have dealt with them, but instead the government re-infuses them with (imaginative) capital and keeps them afloat well beyond their purpose and usefulness has passed.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are two more perfect examples. Sadly, their failure would impart such a negative impact on the nation's economy that anything but federal interference would be seen as "negligent".

Mr. Dente is absolutely right. Today's economy has inspired a market that "privatizes its gains and socializes its losses" and people still have the audacity to complain that we tax corporations too much, saying high taxes destabilizes the free market.

My question is, "what free market"?

As a lover of a free system, I take serious offense with the idea that we're in one already. And because we're so far from one right now, I almost can't see a reason not to defend the government's right to tax corporations that have done nothing but benefit from the taxes we citizens all pay now.

This is my opinion and wonder how others feel.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2008, 09:12:21 PM by Abraxas » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2008, 03:08:48 AM »

  Well, you hit the nail on the proverbial head.  Socialize debt,  privatize profit is exactly what our government has done in Iraq.  They spent, and are spending billions in public funds to destroy Iraq, then, they spend more public funds to pay their private corporations to rebuild it. They didn't take bids from corporations, they gave the contracts to the companies they wanted. So we end up owing billions , while their already spending our money.  This "you shouldn't tax companies that do well" idea is absurd.  So, you only tax companies that do poorly?  It's senseless.  The marriage of government and Industry will continue to kill the economy as long as we allow it. Until the day that the government owns all the land and everyone will be in debt to the government.
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2008, 11:34:45 AM »

If the government did not grant lucrative contracts to the private sector or provide corporate welfare, with business practices free from state influence, would it still be acceptable to tax them?
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2008, 01:14:32 PM »

Abraxas, you are right when you say the US is not a free market. It is a welfare state for the rich. Free markets are what the US (usually through the IMF or World bank) forces down the throats of Third World countries so they can be exploited by US big business. Iraq is a prime example, though it was not the IMF but the US Military that forced the market on them in this case (as they have done plenty of times before, as Noam Chomsky regularly points out).

The truth is, no responsible government would ever willing inflict a "free market" on their people. It is inhuman. So instead it is protectionism for America and free markets for the Third World.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2008, 06:05:37 PM »

If the government did not grant lucrative contracts to the private sector or provide corporate welfare, with business practices free from state influence, would it still be acceptable to tax them?

I certaintly think it would be less acceptable.
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2008, 07:17:45 PM »

In reality America has a corporate economy in which business and government are partners, and corporate welfare drains millions of taxpayer dollars from the treasury as corportions seek to privatize their gains and socialize their losses.
 This line sums it all up and bears repeating. These are the ideals and goals of the republican "free market".
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Patton
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2008, 05:20:57 AM »

I was uanware Republicans were the only ones supporting and benefitting from the "free market"............
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2008, 08:07:44 AM »

 Incase you didn't notice Patton, the words free market were in quotes and in maroon indicating sarcasm and that the free market isn't all that "free" in reality.
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Patton
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2008, 08:10:22 AM »

I was unaware a "maroon highlight" was sarcasm.

My apologies.
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Abraxas
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2008, 11:33:19 AM »

I was unaware a "maroon highlight" was sarcasm.

My apologies.

It came up in a post in the "General Forum" about how members can better express sarcasm.

... I spend too much time on IAP Undecided ...
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2008, 07:53:22 PM »

I was unaware a "maroon highlight" was sarcasm.

My apologies.
I don't read posts closely enough to look for such a subtle difference in text coloring.  And I pretty much tend to be immune to such subtleties like sarcasm.
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2008, 07:55:24 PM »

Biker, nice sig.
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Patton
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2008, 05:47:04 AM »

I think you need a "not work safe" warning for it.....I now have to hide the monitor from the rest here in the physicians lounge.....lol
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2008, 11:44:41 AM »

I think you need a "not work safe" warning for it.....I now have to hide the monitor from the rest here in the physicians lounge.....lol

You can't see anything, what's the problem?
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2008, 02:28:18 PM »

I think you need a "not work safe" warning for it.....I now have to hide the monitor from the rest here in the physicians lounge.....lol

You can't see anything, what's the problem?
Problem is, Patton is a prude.
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