Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2008, 01:27:25 PM » |
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It should be noted that One of McCains top advisors Randall Scheunemann was, up to 2007 a lobbeist for the country of Georgia. One has to wonder how unbiased his critisism of Russia's actions are, with someone as involved with Georgias side as Scheunemann is, advising him. Scheunemann wouldn't condem the ethnic cleansing that Georgia has been practicing , after all he was/ is their advocate. Does anyone believe that McCain is taking a a real look at what is motivating Russia? How objective is he, when looking at the situation through the eyes of an advocate for Georgia?
Its unlikely that Russia would have taken such action had Georgias petition to join NATO been accepted. We need to back up and ask why was the petition to join denied? What were they doing that was so bad that NATO wouldn't let them in? McCain came out quickly with an opinion on whats going on. Now we need to ask how accurate and objective is it?
You're right. That is information worth noting and thanks for bringing it to my attention. Do you have a link, by chance? I'm a little concerned with how little Georgia's initial violence has been ignored. Yes, Russia over-reacted... but Georgia invaded S Ossetia to keep them from declaring independence. Imagine if Russia invaded Georgia for doing the same thing... |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
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... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Ahkenaten
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Professor of Angular Mil and Applied Narcotics
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2008, 02:56:28 PM » |
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Its unlikely that Russia would have taken such action had Georgias petition to join NATO been accepted. We need to back up and ask why was the petition to join denied? What were they doing that was so bad that NATO wouldn't let them in? McCain came out quickly with an opinion on whats going on. Now we need to ask how accurate and objective is it? It made sense to me. We don't really know what Georgia is. Ossetia was bulked in to Georgia during a very confusing time while the Soviet Union was breaking apart. They essentially had a hasty permission to include Ossetia in their territory by a Russian president who couldn't really say no if he wanted. No one apparently asked the Ossetians (sp?). They have, obviously, very serious internal conflicts and frictions. If they had been included into NATO who would we call if we wanted their help, and what would that exactly include? There's a lot of questions that need to be answered regarding Georgia as an entity before they can be trusted as a state. McCain told the audience that Saakashvili "knows that the thoughts and prayers and support of the American people are with that brave little nation as they struggle today for their freedom and independence. He wanted me to say thank you, to give you his heartfelt thanks for the support of the American people."
McCain said he told him "that I know I speak for every American when I say to him today, we are all Georgians.''
Welp. I'd like to know just wtf he's talking about. I dont think he knows. Ossetia was 'granted' as part of Georgian break away republic during a very confusing and weak time in Russia's history, especially politically. Ossetians had no say in the matter. Russia basically 'gave' Ossetia to Georgia when there wasn't much they could do about either way and no one asked Osstia what they wanted. So if McCain is saying "today we're all Georgians" I really gotta ask wtf he means. Can he even define Georgia? Because they've had a problem doing that for near 20 years now. There is nothing 'solid' about Georgia's state. It's one of the reasons they were rejected for NATO. The powers that be in NATO could see the problems they're having. Or is he expecting parts of the US to break-away? People say it shows he's more on the ball internationally - personally I think that counts on people not knowing much about Georgia or how it came to be. It's a good bet to take. just sayin, Ahk |
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 03:10:35 PM by Ahkenaten »
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2008, 05:59:18 PM » |
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McCain today sounds like George W Bush circa 2002-2003. Do we really want to go back there?   |
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« Last Edit: August 13, 2008, 08:01:20 PM by jpn of Seattle »
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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freethinker
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« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2008, 06:36:59 AM » |
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It seems Georgia's president Saakashvili feels he has been ripped off. They paid well for the influence with McCain and now he wants his monies worth. The Georgian lobbyist/ McCain campaign adviser Scheunemann must have promised more than just lip service for the large fees he charged the country. Dear Georgia, Despite what your lobbyist might have told you, McCain isn't the President and can't make policy
Joe Sudbay (DC) · 8/13/2008 03:46:00 PM ET · Link
18 Comments · reddit · FARK · Digg It!
Today's Washington Post filled us in on the relationship between the government of Georgia and John McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann. Seems for quite awhile, Mr. Scheunemann served two masters at the same time: Georgia and McCain.
Matt Yglesias, from his new perch at Think Progress notes that Georgia's president wants more than words from McCain. He wants action. Matt wrote:
it looks like Mikhail Saakashvili thought it meant something when John McCain proclaimed America and Georgia to be identical.
Georgia wants action based on McCain's words. Therein lies the problem for Georgia and leads to the question of just exactly who Georgia's leaders think McCain is. McCain is only a Senator -- he doesn't set U.S. foreign policy. The president does -- and McCain is not the president (and won't be).
Seems that the Georgians may have been misled by their lobbyists. According to that Post article, Scheunemann's lobbying company "signed a $200,000 contract to continue providing strategic advice to the Georgian government in Washington." Memo to Georgia: Get your money back. In the meantime, you're stuck with Bush and Condi. http://www.americablog.com/2008/08/dear-georgia-despite-what-your-lobbyist.html |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2008, 06:50:23 AM » |
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It seems Georgia's president Saakashvili feels he has been ripped off. They paid well for the influence with McCain and now he wants his monies worth. The Georgian lobbyist/ McCain campaign adviser Scheunemann must have promised more than just lip service for the large fees he charged the country. These seem to be quite a few suppositions loosely tied together. Is there any direct evidence or is it all circumstantial? |
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freethinker
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2008, 07:47:46 AM » |
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But the fact that his top foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann arranged a phone call between his longtime lobbying client, the Georgian president, and the Republican presidential candidate on the same day that Scheunemann's lobbying company Orion Strategies signed a $200,000 lobbying renewal contract with the country really takes the cake for conflict of interest. 1. We know Georgia paid Randy Scheunemann for influence in washington 2. We know Randy Scheunemann works for McCain's campaign. 3. We know McCain has made statements defending and sympathizing with Georgia in this conflict. 4. We know Randy Scheunemann arranged the phone call to McCain ON THE DAY GEORGIA PAID HIM! 5.We know Georgia's president was angry that action did not follow the words. These are circumstances. These are circumstances that indicate impropriety and quid pro quo. Circumstantial evidence is not weak evidence, especially when there is so much of it leading in one direction and the connecting of the dots does not require supposition...only logical conclusion Neue. |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2008, 08:02:48 AM » |
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These are circumstances that indicate impropriety and quid pro quo I've seen worse not labeled as such. Circumstantial evidence is not weak evidence No, but when that is the ONLY evidence, it usually doesn't make the case. especially when there is so much of it leading in one direction and the connecting of the dots does not require supposition Is there direct evidence that influence was bought? When you said 'It seems Georgia's president Saakashvili feels he has been ripped off' it smacks of an admission that influence was NOT bought. The fact that it was tried is supposition as the money DIDN'T and hasn't seemed to influence McCain at all. |
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freethinker
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2008, 09:45:35 AM » |
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These are circumstances that indicate impropriety and quid pro quo I've seen worse not labeled as such. Labeled or not an indication is an indication. Circumstantial evidence is not weak evidence No, but when that is the ONLY evidence, it usually doesn't make the case. Sorry to burst your bubble Neue but any atourney will tell you lots of criminals are on death row convicted purely on "circumstantial evidence". especially when there is so much of it leading in one direction and the connecting of the dots does not require supposition Is there direct evidence that influence was bought? When you said 'It seems Georgia's president Saakashvili feels he has been ripped off' it smacks of an admission that influence was NOT bought. The fact that it was tried is supposition as the money DIDN'T and hasn't seemed to influence McCain at all. All I can ask is ;is there direct evidence that your nose is on your face? Listen to Saakashvili's words. “Yesterday, I heard Sen. McCain say, ‘We are all Georgians now,’” Saakashvili said on CNN’s American Morning. “Well, very nice, you know, very cheering for us to hear that, but OK, it’s time to pass from this. From words to deeds.” Why is he appealing to McCain...why not Bush?... He didn't buy Bush. |
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« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 09:51:00 AM by freethinker »
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2008, 09:51:46 AM » |
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Is there direct evidence that influence was bought? When you said 'It seems Georgia's president Saakashvili feels he has been ripped off' it smacks of an admission that influence was NOT bought. The fact that it was tried is supposition as the money DIDN'T and hasn't seemed to influence McCain at all. You were wise to not challenge this because we both know that Saakashvili was shooting in the dark if he thought he was somehow buying influence from a man who was in no position to help him...today, anyway. That and the fact that Saakashvili would have to be clairvoyant to know Russia would attack him. I'm sure the left hopes he's not equally clairvoyant in whose influence to buy. |
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freethinker
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« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2008, 10:55:40 AM » |
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No clairvoyance necessary Neue. The Russian bombing was in response to Georgia's attack on the Russian peace keeping force. Georgia selected the timeline. Over 10 Russian peacekeepers killed in S.Ossetia-agencies
Fri Aug 8, 2008 9:30am EDT
MOSCOW, August 8 (Reuters) - More than 10 Russian peacekeepers have been killed during fighting in Tskhinvali, the capital of Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia, news agencies quoted a top Russian military commander as saying on Friday.
"As a result of Georgian shelling more than 10 of our peacekeepers were killed and nearly 30 were wounded," deputy commander of ground forces Igor Konashenkov said . http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL8187260 Theres no question that Russia's response was way over the top but there is also no question which side started the killing. Look at the dateline in the Reuters report. |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2008, 05:44:09 PM » |
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These seem to be quite a few suppositions loosely tied together. Is there any direct evidence or is it all circumstantial?
Don't waste your time free. This guy still doesn't believe in global warming. |
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What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
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neue regel
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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2008, 06:13:27 PM » |
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LOL! I've never once said I don't believe the earth is warming.
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freethinker
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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2008, 06:18:35 PM » |
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These seem to be quite a few suppositions loosely tied together. Is there any direct evidence or is it all circumstantial?
Don't waste your time free. This guy still doesn't believe in global warming. I know I know I've been debating with Mr.New Rule for years...its sometimes like debating with a mule but he often keeps me on my toes and he's the only one left to engage. The rest have, it seems all left in shame...errr McShame. |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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neue regel
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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2008, 06:23:40 PM » |
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AND.....I'm a nice guy to be an evil conservative!!!!!!  |
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