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Author Topic: War time president... without the war time supprt  (Read 592 times)
jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2008, 07:32:09 PM »

McCain's explanation...
Quote
McCain, along with Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Richard Burr of North Carolina, has introduced an alternative bill that would increase education benefits on a sliding scale based on an individual's years of service. McCain argues his bill would have a smaller impact on retention rates than the legislation that the Senate passed.

Makes sense to me and it seems McCain was quite possibly right.

ps: it doesn't take political courage to vote money out of other people's pockets.

It's not an explanation. It's an excuse. A non-partisan study showed that while the program would have a negative impact on retention, it would also have a positive impact on recruitment. The two impacts would essentially cancel out.

Poor McCain, I guess he thought that all he could do is lie to his audience about how he made the legislation "better."

Here's what a man with way more military experience has to say about McCain's opposition:
Quote
First, it is morally reprehensible to fix the system so that civilian life is unappealing to service members, in an attempt to force them to re-up. Education assistance is not a handout, it is a sacred promise that we have made for generations in return for service.

Second, falling military recruitment numbers are just as serious as retention problems. To send the message that this nation will not help you make the most of your life will dissuade a large number of our best and brightest from choosing military service over other career options.
[3w].latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-clark10apr10,0,1791314.story
« Last Edit: August 18, 2008, 07:43:54 PM by jpn of Seattle » Logged

What you got is everything-and I mean everything—run by the political arm. It’s the reign of the Mayberry Machiavellis. --John DiIulio, former White House official
Cass
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« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2008, 08:20:11 PM »

Though Patton may not enjoy the you tube included in this post.  It is the evidence of the lying McCain at the VFW
where he actually tried to tell those gathered there for their convention he supports them.  The youtube can be accessed on the link following the post.

John McCain Attempts Spin to VFW Audience
by: RockRichard
Mon Aug 18, 2008 at 15:56:41 PM EDT

As a political proposition, it would have much easier for me to have just signed on to what I considered flawed legislation. But the people of Arizona, and of all America, expect more from their representatives than that, and instead I sought a better bill. I'm proud to say that the result is a law that better serves our military, better serves military families, and better serves the interests of our country.
"Better bill", eh John? Funny you should say that in front of the VFW's national convention. This is what their deputy director for legislative affairs had to say about your "better bill":

The Graham-Burr-McCain plan is "very partisan and is seen as a way to convolute the GI bill, or to slow the Webb-Hagel proposal down.
McCain is taking a pretty large leap to say that he introduced "a better bill". Here is the skinny on McCain's version:

They aim to increase the $1,100 of education benefits per month for active duty service member to $1,500.
And the bi-partisan Webb-Hagel bill:

Under the bill, service members returning from Iraq or Afghanistan could earn up to 36 months of benefits, equivalent to four academic years, which would include payment of tuition, books and fees, as well as a $1,000 a month living stipend for those veterans whose military service qualifies them for the program.
You can decide for yourself which version is the "better bill". For what its worth, VFW endorsed the Webb-Hagel version and is even awarding Senator Webb a a gold medal and citation of merit for his work on Veterans' education benefits.

More on this in Ernie1812's diary.

http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=09934E93E872474C3FB13A8015159CA5?diaryId=1782

I also understand that though  I may be just a lefty who watches Olberman. But guess what, isn't Ft Sill, in Oklahoma  Patton's local stomping territory.  Apparently, the medical facility there that serves the miltary, families and the wounded vets is loaded with mold and in as bad shape as Walter Reed. The former Mather AFB
in Sacramento, when it was a military facility was likewise, but they cleaned it up.  Though I've not of late been
there as patient since when the base was closed it became a VA hospital and clinic, I hope it remains in good shape.

Ain't it wonderful how the "old warrior," a decorated vet himself, as a member of the Senate and a candidate for
CIC takes such good care of those vets and wounded he would like to continue to increase for a 100 years in Iraq?   
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Patton
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« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2008, 03:34:02 AM »

Was he not well received?
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

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« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2008, 08:07:58 AM »

6 times as much doesn't really MEAN much. I know for a fact that I could not name onbe person who donated to a campaign while I was active duty. 6 times $10.00 isn't really very meaningful.

What is, or should I say will be, telling is how many of the absentee ballots cast from overseas will support who.

And I THINK what the OP is refering to by cutting benefits is not really pay so much as housing upkeep, the quality of food stuffs in mess halls and such.
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machioveli
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2008, 05:28:11 PM »

Cass what I am saying is we are reaping the decisions made by Billy...

"Clinton was the first President in Cold War history to eliminate the daily intelligence briefing by the National Security Council as well as the only President in modern times to forbid servicemen and women from wearing their uniforms in the White House while on duty -- President Clinton has recently been forced to bite his tongue and propose an increase in defense spending.
With U.S. planes and helicopters literally falling out of the sky because of a lack of maintenance and spare parts, as well as a lack of training, all the while U.S. forces being tasked more than ever with overseas deployments, Republicans in Congress have for years been asking the White House to support increased defense spending." http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/political_economy/15499 (note in bold and we wonder why we did not see 9/11 coming)

Clinton Cut Army to Less Than Half its Gulf War Size http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/weinberg.htm

You see we do not see the effect of the current President until the next President. Things do not change overnight. Therefore, the "nice economy" we had under Clinton was in fact the result of GWB Sr. and Reagan. What we are seeing now is the direct results of Clinton decisions. People wonder why the economy is in shambles? We were forced to close down hundreds of bases that killed many city economies because the military could not afford to keep them open. We are cutting back on VA medical care, and education benefits because of these cuts. You can say what you want, but truth is Clinton ruined this country not Bush. And to think cutting the military budget is only one small thing that this idiot did wrong.





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Cass
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2008, 09:56:09 PM »

Machioveli, if there was a god, we will desperately need help not just for the military, but for every aspect of this nation after the departure of the cabal who were elected not once, but twice by those like you.  While you're taking the time to explain to me about the evils of the Clinton Administrations, as there was two for him as well, it appears you haven't noticed, Clinton cut budgets, but not as much as some have claimed, but increased the VA budget. Any idea how many vets from Vietnam and 20 years of that war, were still requiring care? 

There is a huge difference in cutting the military by cutting budgets and cutting it by killing more than 4000 in Iraq alone, not counting those in Afghanistan. Thanks to the cut and run aspect to invade and occupy Iraq, though you appear to not to have noticed the circumstances there grow worse by the day if not the hour. Ah, I understand it was only 10 French troops, helping to attempt to pull Dubya's ass out of the fire who died today.
BTW, two of your heroes, Reagan and Poppy Bush cut the VA while Clinton, you know the draft dodger, increased
the VA budget. It is the VA and vets this post is about. Google away you'll find I'm correct.   

Sometimes I wonder how you people who appear to put your own wallets ahead of the lives,limbs and circumstances all not just those in the military, but then I'm reminded of your creed: greed is good, I've got mine, screw all the rest of you. BTW, Clinton left office almost 8 year ago. How long will it take for you to admit
the responsibility of your current choice for the person in the Oval Office and the true responsibility of  Bush/Cheney. 

The military is broken almost beyond repair with the costs of Iraq estimated to eventually reach 3 trillion. That's what a war of choice costs, not budget cuts. And where are the funds going to come to replace all the guard equipment.  The guard has been used in Iraq like it hasn't been used since it was the original militia. Like it was never used in Nam.

A perfect example of that is the guy who spent that war guarding Houston when he wasn't guarding a bar stool in Alabama and enjoying a bit of nose candy until he chose to avoid and physical and departed prior to the end of his obligation.   Wonder if he had ever seen a day of combat if he would have been so anxious to begin a deadly war of choice? 

So goodbye and good riddance maybe soon this nation will begin to recover, but it is questionable IMHO as to how.

Maybe you've been hanging out on this forum with Patton as a mentor far too long?  


« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 10:07:18 PM by Cass » Logged

\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
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machioveli
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2008, 11:14:58 PM »

Once again you refuse to accept the facts and lay blame on everything that is happening on the war in Iraq. You talk about loosing 4000 men and women who serve and compare it to budget cuts? Did not get you on this one as I thought you were trying to transit from the truth to your opinion. I guess you refuse to talk about how Clinton has deployed more troops than Bush and Reagan combined. Yes let us over look all of this because Obama will save us, it is time for change, more defense cuts, more welfare checks and free programs to the lazy who refuse to work because our government will take care of them. Yes I am looking foward to that change.
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freethinker
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« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2008, 06:36:13 AM »

Quote
more welfare checks and free programs to the lazy who refuse to work because our government will take care of them.
You mean like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac?
Quote
what I am saying is we are reaping the decisions made by Billy...
What a rich imagination of fantasy you have mach...quite amusing ...next you'll be telling us that tax cuts increase revenues. Grin
Quote
Obama will save us
Yes given a chance to , he will.
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Cass
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« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2008, 05:09:45 PM »

Was he not well received?


Patton, I think this Miami Herald article was a good and a fair example of the reception of McCain and Obama at the VFW convention once one moves past the clearly biased headline.  Maybe the VFW has changed?  It may have enlisted younger Iraq and Afghanistan vets?  No mention of the Webb GI bill McCain chose to discuss.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/columnists/myriam-marquez/v-print/story/649034.html




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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator

The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
Cass
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« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2008, 09:44:09 PM »

Bush speaks on the issue of the mold at Ft. Sill, not really, but sort of. Not for those with no sense of humor. Actually, issue isn't amusing, but sometime a good belly laugh can clear up
issues and with Bush's history well......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-ChNQd8pc

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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\"  Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator

The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
machioveli
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2008, 10:37:20 PM »

Bush speaks on the issue of the mold at Ft. Sill, not really, but sort of. Not for those with no sense of humor. Actually, issue isn't amusing, but sometime a good belly laugh can clear up
issues and with Bush's history well......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-ChNQd8pc



Once again poor housing conditions for the military.....Clinton budget cuts....get the picture
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freethinker
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« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2008, 02:37:00 PM »


Once again poor housing conditions for the military.....Clinton budget cuts....get the picture
  Once again your fantasy picture of the situation leaves us all shaking our heads.
 IF that were true ...please explain why the troop supporting, wonderfully concerned, compassionate, pro military GWB and the republicon congress couldn't fix it in seven long years??
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freethinker
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« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2008, 07:25:20 PM »

Bush speaks on the issue of the mold at Ft. Sill, not really, but sort of. Not for those with no sense of humor. Actually, issue isn't amusing, but sometime a good belly laugh can clear up
issues and with Bush's history well......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE-ChNQd8pc



Once again poor housing conditions for the military.....Clinton budget cuts....get the picture

 I'll take a Clinton budget any day of the week mach.
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Patton
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« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2008, 04:15:26 AM »

Ride that bubble baby.........
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

-George S. Patton
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