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Cass
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« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2008, 05:44:38 PM » |
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Actually Totino, I feel little, but concern and pity for you, having observed way too many like you, though few were volunteers, but participants, not of their choice in an earlier war in SE Asia, not all that different from Iraq. A war
based on lies, for the benefits of those who chose it and their cronies the war profiteers. Maybe Patton could tell
you what war wounds look like or explain to me after all these years how to remove the smell of burned human flesh once you've experienced it from your cognition. I wish you good luck if and when you're deploye, if your are, and hope you return with both life and limbs.
Little fella we've had this conversation before. You appear to have learned no polite way to respond to one who doesn't share you opinions. By now I thought maybe the Army would have taught you how to say a polite, Ma'am.
LOL, I note your indoctrination has taken well. But please don't waste your time attempting to convince me, you're
protecting my right to speak. It's just one more BS factor of indoctrination.
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 05:46:25 PM by Cass »
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\\"The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dream shall never die.\\" Edward Kennedy, U.S.
Senator
The old lion of the Senate, though a lion in winter, has lived to do more for this nation than John or Bobby though
who knows what life would be like now had they lived.
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Totino
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« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2008, 05:49:21 PM » |
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I have no reason to respond to you politely when you feel the need to tarnish those who serve this country.
If you act like a lady, maybe you'll be treated as such.
I've never said I have directly given you your right to speech. But let us see here.... If we were attacked by another country tomorrow, who will protect you? The military. And in the past, who caused the US to have freedom? The military. Regardless of what you think about Iraq, you cannot deny that the military has given you your rights and currently protects them. Maybe you need a history lesson? Who knows.
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 05:51:36 PM by Totino »
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 \\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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freethinker
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« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2008, 06:06:11 PM » |
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I have no reason to respond to you politely when you feel the need to tarnish those who serve this country.
If you act like a lady, maybe you'll be treated as such.
I've never said I have directly given you your right to speech. But let us see here.... If we were attacked by another country tomorrow, who will protect you? The military. And in the past, who caused the US to have freedom? The military. Regardless of what you think about Iraq, you cannot deny that the military has given you your rights and currently protects them. Maybe you need a history lesson? Who knows.
Tot Cass doesn't need you to give her the right to free speech. The military never "caused" the US to have freedoms ...the constitution grants us those. The best that could be said is that the military is the last line of enforcement ...that is all. |
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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Totino
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« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2008, 06:10:07 PM » |
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Lol. How do you think the US even had the ability to create and keep a constitution? The military. It's a direct result buddy.
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\\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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freethinker
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« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2008, 06:18:43 PM » |
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If you are talking about the war for independance ...that war won us independance ...again the constitution gives us freedom.
Not war.
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 06:30:08 PM by freethinker »
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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Totino
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« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2008, 06:32:33 PM » |
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Once again, it is a direct result of war. There is no freedom without war
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\\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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freethinker
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« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2008, 06:46:44 PM » |
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They did a good job of brainwashing you Tot. You conflate freedom with war /war with freedom.
War does not result in freedom. Freedom does not require war to exist. War can allow freedom to occur if it is being suppressed by force, but it is far from being the direct result.
I understand that this is what you have been indoctrinated to believe, that war will always result in freedom. That belief takes away the need to question the war you fight. Soldiers that analyze are not what they want or need.
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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Abraxas
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"You do not speak for the rest"
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« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2008, 06:48:46 PM » |
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Once again, it is a direct result of war. There is no freedom without war
That I don't believe. Canada and Switzerland are pretty free while still remaining non-violent. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Totino
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« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2008, 06:54:51 PM » |
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Brainwash? I've always said this long before the military. It is in the same vein as there cannot be peace without war. And I'm not alone in this thinking.
"We make war that we may live in peace" Aristotle
"It is an unfortunate fact that we can secure peace only by preparing for war" JFK
"Let him who desires peace prepare for war" Vegetius
"The purpose of all wars is peace" St. Augustine
It is a direct result. You cannot secure your peace or freedom without a military force to defend it.
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\\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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Totino
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« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2008, 07:00:47 PM » |
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Once again, it is a direct result of war. There is no freedom without war
That I don't believe. Canada and Switzerland are pretty free while still remaining non-violent. That is current day now that they have their freedom. Switzerland was taken over by France in in late 1790. They did not gain independence until Russia invaded Switzerland and fought off France. Finally causing Napoleon to straighten up. They were not official until I believe the congress of Vienna. |
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\\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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freethinker
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« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2008, 07:04:00 PM » |
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Case in point Brax... Most war is fought for control, repression, financial stability, political influence or competition. Very, very, seldom to enable freedom. But the warrior finds comfort in the belief that war = freedom. It allows him to do the horrible things he is asked to do.
As far as the Greeks and Romans go they had to keep their forces from thinking as well. They were just as likely to be persuaded to kill for glory as freedom.
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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Totino
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« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2008, 07:07:41 PM » |
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Yeah, because Aristotle played a GIANT role in the military. AHAHA. That's sarcasm for all of you kiddies at home.
Independence is often gained from war. It is as simple as that. Why would you fight for independence? Obviously because you want FREEDOM.
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 07:09:41 PM by Totino »
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\\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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Abraxas
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« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2008, 07:14:16 PM » |
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Switzerland was taken over by France in in late 1790. They did not gain independence until Russia invaded Switzerland and fought off France. Finally causing Napoleon to straighten up. They were not official until I believe the congress of Vienna. Switzerland hasn't been to war since 1815 and has been free to determine it's own goverment since the ratification of it's constitution in 1848... and before then it was a Confederacy ( SOURCE: Wiki). So Switzerland hasn't had to fight for its freedoms since the 19th century and Canada... just got lucky, or something? C'mon... you can do better then that... I'm not pissing in your eye or anything or saying as a soldier you don't do anything. I'm just rejecting the premise that freedom isn't possible without war. |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Totino
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« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2008, 07:16:05 PM » |
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Switzerland was taken over by France in in late 1790. They did not gain independence until Russia invaded Switzerland and fought off France. Finally causing Napoleon to straighten up. They were not official until I believe the congress of Vienna. Switzerland hasn't been to war since 1815 and has been free to determine it's own goverment since the ratification of it's constitution in 1848... and before then it was a Confederacy ( SOURCE: Wiki). So Switzerland hasn't had to fight for its freedoms since the 19th century and Canada... just got lucky, or something? C'mon... you can do better then that... I'm not pissing in your eye or anything or saying as a soldier you don't do anything. I'm just rejecting the premise that freedom isn't possible without war. Wow. You missed the point. How did they GAIN their freedom and independence? THROUGH WAR. It really isn't a difficult concept to grasp. They have not fought a war since (even though Germany had plans to invade them). That's awesome. But it doesn't change the fact that their independence and thus freedom was gained from war in the early 1800s. |
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« Last Edit: August 17, 2008, 07:17:48 PM by Totino »
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\\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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freethinker
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« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2008, 07:17:28 PM » |
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Now INDEPENDANCE is OFTEN gained from war? Thats quite a softening of your previous position that "freedom is a direct result of war".
Did I get you thinking Tot?
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Yes we can ...and now we will...
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