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Author Topic: Wal-Mart tells employees: Don't vote for Obama  (Read 669 times)
illy
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« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2008, 04:46:11 PM »

This short article is a good example of how corporations challenge labor interests, and how it relates to the political process. Apparently Wal-Mart has been discouraging its employees from voting for Barack Obama, as they fear that his reforms will empower workers and threaten their wealth. This is of course a violation of America's democratic values.

Quote
Wal-Mart and US Politics

Posted by Erin Weir
August 16th, 2008

Several American labour groups have filed a complaint against Wal-Mart for instructing its employees to vote against Obama and other Democrats. I first got wind of this electoral controversy a couple of weeks ago through The Hamilton Spectator, which printed an Associated Press story that succinctly outlines Wal-Mart’s actions and the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) against which these actions are directed.

Wal-Mart spokesmen do not deny that company officials told employees how to vote. Instead, they claim that these officials were “acting without approval.” An editorial to be printed in tomorrow’s New York Times appropriately pans this defence.

Canadian trade unionists should pay attention to this episode. Some components of the Democratic agenda, such as banning the permanent replacement of striking workers, would simply grant unionized Americans basic protections that unionized Canadians have long taken for granted. However, by permitting card-check certification, EFCA would set the procedural barriers to union organizing lower in the US than in most Canadian provinces.

EFCA also provides for first-contract arbitration and mediation as well as stronger penalties for violations of the existing National Labor Relations Act. Since Obama has personally sponsored EFCA, there is good reason to expect that a Democratic victory will result in its implementation.

http://www.progressive-economics.ca/2008/08/16/walmart-employee-free-choice-act/


Big deal....come on people votes are confidential. I would lie to these idiots and say I will vote for who they want and vote the way I want. They will never know. But I do think that companies should stay out of promoting candidates. Unfortunately this is not against the law unless you are military. Companies can persuay voters to vote for certain people, it only becomes illegal in they install consequences for not doing it. But like I said who knows who you voted for unless you tell them.

In many cases it's not a matter of what's legal and what's not. Nor is it necessarily a matter of company policy. Supervisors and coworkers at pretty much any job are capable of getting someone to quit. Company policy might not be politically biased, but that won't necessarily stop supervisors and coworkers from being more unfriendly toward someone based on a discussion of who they've, plan to vote for, etc.

From my point of view, a company (or supervisor for that matter) that would try to bully me around politically isn't one worth working for. If my boss ever was brazen enough to try and tell me who to vote for, I would ask him if he wants notice or if I should just GTFO right now.

Additionally, profitable employees come in all political bents. Basing employment on political views would be a poor business decision (in the vast majority of cases). Filling positions with any fool who'll vote a certain way isn't going to help productivity.
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« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2008, 05:17:11 PM »

The bottom line for corporations, with Wal-Mart as a more than classic example is to increase the bottom line by paying the least wages possible to employees.  This has been a historical problem in the U.S. most especially with the GOP, the Party of Big Business. It has nothing to do with secret ballots, there is the concern that if Obama is elected the legislation that would make Wal-Mart's actions illegal and create
a more appropriate method for allowing, in particular, low wage workers to organize without threats from employers. 

This is a "preemptive strike" attempt by Wal-Mart not to control their employees ultimate ability to organize, but to try to keep Obama out of office by attempting to influence the votes of their employees. 
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illy
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« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2008, 05:43:04 PM »

I would expect no less from a company that uses Medicaid programs as their health care provider.
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« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2008, 06:09:05 PM »

Social Justice, huh? While a few union members get to benefit, every other employee is thrown out onto the curb.   

Anyone can join a union if they wish, so I don't quite understand your "a few union members get to benefit" comment. Every worker benefits from union activities, and the proposals mentioned are designed to protect workers, regardless of what Wal-Mart says to scare its employees.

Until a union does start and Wal-Mart may find it more profitable to just close up shop until they can find non-union workers.  Now everyone is out of a job except those who now have an opportunity for employment with Wal-Mart as a non-union member.  So, OK sure sounds like a good idea to me.  People who really wanted the work can now get it. Expect the government to exert some pressure? Good luck with that, at least in America.     

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« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2008, 08:18:20 PM »

Absolutely, those who want to work can always find it. I guess it depends on the desperation as the unemployment rates continue to climb even with the current methodology
of deciding who is and who is not unemployed.  Maybe the Wal-Mart executives will succeed and the attempt to manipulate the vote, not for a union, but for who will occupy the Oval Office will succeed. Who can tell if you're desperate enough for employment if you'll be willing to mark a ballot at your employer's direction to keep your job. Or better still as unemployment continues to rise the recruiters will be so successful McCain will no long feel there is a need for a draft.

And Santa Claus will arrive on time, no one will get lumps of coal in their stockings and the Easter Bunny will lay huge chocolate eggs for all. The dual deficit will disappear,
China will quit supplying Wal-Mart with cheap goods, actually with the shut downs of traffic and manufacturing in China to clean up the air for the Olympics there is that possibility, but I have no doubt the Iraqi government is going to take all that oil surplus and pay for their own reconstruction, we'll all have two chickens in the pot and all
will be peaceful around the planet as we live happily ever after.

Ever worked part-time  for minimum wage Gojira to try to feed a family? Let me know when you've had that experience. 
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« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2008, 11:36:01 PM »

Absolutely, those who want to work can always find it. I guess it depends on the desperation as the unemployment rates continue to climb even with the current methodology
of deciding who is and who is not unemployed.  Maybe the Wal-Mart executives will succeed and the attempt to manipulate the vote, not for a union, but for who will occupy the Oval Office will succeed. Who can tell if you're desperate enough for employment if you'll be willing to mark a ballot at your employer's direction to keep your job. Or better still as unemployment continues to rise the recruiters will be so successful McCain will no long feel there is a need for a draft.

And Santa Claus will arrive on time, no one will get lumps of coal in their stockings and the Easter Bunny will lay huge chocolate eggs for all. The dual deficit will disappear,
China will quit supplying Wal-Mart with cheap goods, actually with the shut downs of traffic and manufacturing in China to clean up the air for the Olympics there is that possibility, but I have no doubt the Iraqi government is going to take all that oil surplus and pay for their own reconstruction, we'll all have two chickens in the pot and all
will be peaceful around the planet as we live happily ever after.

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Ever worked part-time  for minimum wage Gojira to try to feed a family? Let me know when you've had that experience. 

Have you?
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2008, 12:29:23 PM »

Social Justice, huh? While a few union members get to benefit, every other employee is thrown out onto the curb.   

Anyone can join a union if they wish, so I don't quite understand your "a few union members get to benefit" comment. Every worker benefits from union activities, and the proposals mentioned are designed to protect workers, regardless of what Wal-Mart says to scare its employees.

Until a union does start and Wal-Mart may find it more profitable to just close up shop until they can find non-union workers.  Now everyone is out of a job except those who now have an opportunity for employment with Wal-Mart as a non-union member.  So, OK sure sounds like a good idea to me.  People who really wanted the work can now get it. Expect the government to exert some pressure? Good luck with that, at least in America.     

In most civilized countries it is illegal to fire someone for joining a union, that should be one of the reforms, if it is not the law already. (I'm not sure).
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« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2008, 07:53:53 AM »

How is Walmart asking its employees to vote AGAINST Obama any different than the Labor Unions telling its employees to vote FOR them?

While I do not like either practice, the Labor Unions have been doing this for literally DECADES with no outcry.
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« Reply #23 on: August 22, 2008, 09:26:35 AM »

Quote
Ever worked part-time  for minimum wage Gojira to try to feed a family? Let me know when you've had that experience. 

Have you?
[/quote]

Your answer Gojira is yes, plenty of times and in some cases even less. Prior to the minimum wage being applied
to service workers to add to really low military pay of my spouse to feed my children, one waitress position page
$2 a shift, no matter how many hours were required per shift. That was a total of often far more than a 40 hour
week, with the actually income coming off the tips which were also taxable or supposed to be.  Not the first time
nor the last time as jobs for military spouses who were always moving were often hard come by.

And then the labor unions who brought about not only the 40 hour week with overtime past that number caused
service workers to be included in being paid minimum wage. The example was not the first time nor the last time.

Substitute teaching during grad school was very low paid and by the day rather than the hour and even with a
BA was a job, as a single parent during for part of the time I was in grad school allowed employment in the day
time while commuting a round trip 100 miles a night to attend grad school. BTW, in those days it was not included for Social Security purpose leaving mine now smaller. It wasn't until 1986 that the Reagan tax "reform"
began to include public employee positions in the Social Security system and there was no retirement plan available for subs.  BTW, subs are still not included in minimum wages, but paid by the day locally regardless of
the hours required by the school districts.

The reality is like many Wal-Mart employees, when the need arises to find a job, for a variety of reasons, one does take what one can find as previously stated, any one can find work if they really want to work. But the choice and availability of work becomes a far different matter. 
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« Reply #24 on: August 22, 2008, 11:31:45 AM »

How is Walmart asking its employees to vote AGAINST Obama any different than the Labor Unions telling its employees to vote FOR them?

While I do not like either practice, the Labor Unions have been doing this for literally DECADES with no outcry.

No outcry from me, but I do think we can infer that Obama will be good for workers if Wal-Mart are against him.
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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2008, 12:28:00 PM »

The obvious difference or what should be to any who have ever belonged to a union on the issue of intimidation, is unions can't kick out members who vote against their recommendations.  However, neither can Wal-Mart actually fire employees for their votes in a general election. These votes are secret unless voters use an absentee ballot and
allow Wal-Mart to fill it out and then sign it and mail it. 

It is in the end an attempt to intimidate that might succeed because of employees fear of job loss even it it isn't a reality.  The real intent is the concern by a huge corporation that already has a bad reputation for abuse of employees who are at a very low level of pay.

The legislation that would give workers more power to unionize is at the base of the whole issue.  Like a variety of issues this one in the discussion has raged far afield of the real issue, but it has been interesting and typically shows much of the political philosophy of some along with the lack of real life experience of others. 
 
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« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2008, 11:11:28 AM »

The obvious difference or what should be to any who have ever belonged to a union on the issue of intimidation, is unions can't kick out members who vote against their recommendations.  However, neither can Wal-Mart actually fire employees for their votes in a general election. These votes are secret unless voters use an absentee ballot and
allow Wal-Mart to fill it out and then sign it and mail it. 

It is in the end an attempt to intimidate that might succeed because of employees fear of job loss even it it isn't a reality.  The real intent is the concern by a huge corporation that already has a bad reputation for abuse of employees who are at a very low level of pay.

The legislation that would give workers more power to unionize is at the base of the whole issue.  Like a variety of issues this one in the discussion has raged far afield of the real issue, but it has been interesting and typically shows much of the political philosophy of some along with the lack of real life experience of others. 
 

Ever tried to get Union work without a Union card? Ever been Union? I have a good friend who WAS union until he was basically drummed out because of speaking against Union poltical agenda and how it conflicted with his Christian values. They did not say he had to quit the Union but he was constantly passed over for jobs at the hiring hall. If you think Walmarts statement was anywhere near as intimidating as a Unions you need to study some of the tactics Unions regularly employee.
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« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2008, 11:15:24 AM »

The real intent is the concern by a huge corporation that already has a bad reputation for abuse of employees who are at a very low level of pay.

Precisely.
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« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2008, 04:28:12 PM »

Unions may be just as guilty of forcing positions on employees as the supervisors, however what is interesting about this situation is that it really reveals Wal-Mart's political orientation. Corporations have suppressed labor and attacked politicians throughout history, and this is a good contemporary example.
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« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2008, 09:07:44 AM »

Unions may be just as guilty of forcing positions on employees as the supervisors, however what is interesting about this situation is that it really reveals Wal-Mart's political orientation. Corporations have suppressed labor and attacked politicians throughout history, and this is a good contemporary example.

Given some Democrats open hostility towards Walmart, can you exactly blame Walmart for trying to keep the Dems out?
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