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Author Topic: Why do Republicans think like this?  (Read 1310 times)
neue regel
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 06:47:17 PM »

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This begs the question of what people in poverty that rely on SS are supposed to do.

We have to find a way to phase SS, as we know it out, and phase in personal retirement accounts. It will likely mean younger workers (like myself) will pay into SS without getting the usual returns back out.
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gommi
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« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2008, 06:51:24 PM »

Ryan is oversimplifying the Republican mentality, however it is true that the Republican party uses fear to gain support. As jpn stated, their policies do not benefit the majority of Americans, and as a result they are forced to use smear attacks and accusations against their opponents.
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illy
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« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 07:24:47 PM »

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This begs the question of what people in poverty that rely on SS are supposed to do.

We have to find a way to phase SS, as we know it out, and phase in personal retirement accounts. It will likely mean younger workers (like myself) will pay into SS without getting the usual returns back out.

Me too.

TBH, I'm not sure I'm ok with this idea of increasing my cost/benefit ratio like that.

It sounds like under that plan, I would essentially be paying for three retirement accounts, one personal, one somehow administered by the government for me, and then the remnants of the SS system for my folks. Whereas now, I'm only paying into two.

Possibly the benefits and specifics of the proposed changes haven't been explained well enough to me, but I haven't really been too thrilled with the few ideas I have heard.
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Totino
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« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 09:02:12 PM »

Stereotyping will never get you anywhere ryan
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neue regel
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2008, 04:40:29 AM »

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As jpn stated, their policies do not benefit the majority of Americans

How is it possible to look at the incredible prosperity since 1980 and come to this conclusion? There simply has to be some kind of disconnect.
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Reaganite
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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2008, 06:20:38 AM »

That was all CLinton dont cha know.
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ryan77
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2008, 09:48:42 AM »


Changed the title. Nothing personal Ryan but we have in the past trashed or changed titles such as "Why do liberals...hate America" etc. or "Why are Americans...so stupid", etc.

I trust it won't change the general thrust of conversation.


That's fine, but where is my reply to neue regel's response. It was tagged as spam and said a moderator needed to approve it before it could be posted. That was yesterday and it's still not up.
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ryan77
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« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2008, 09:57:52 AM »

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For 40 years democrats have scared old peopel into thinking republicans will take away thier ss benifits and the poor that thier welfare will be taken away as to ensure a solid voting bloc of ignorant people and you want to talk about republicans scaring people.

This is not an argument. You are not saying anything. You don't get to make this argument unless you can back it up with FACTS and EVIDENCE. I am not hearing Barack Obama telling old people the Republicans are going to take away their social security checks. I am not hearing Joe Biden telling old people the Republicans are going to take away their social security checks. I am not hearing Nancy Pelosi telling old people that, or Harry Reid, or any of the other Democratic leadership saying that. So what are you talking about? Exactly who in the Democratic leadership are you referring to? Please cite specific names and quotations of Democratic leaders telling old people Republicans are going to take away their social security checks.

You see, this is what I am referring to when I talk about the intellectual laziness around here. People make these inaccurate and intelluctual lazy comments with absolutely no evidence to support them.
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Ahkenaten
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« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2008, 10:03:40 AM »


Changed the title. Nothing personal Ryan but we have in the past trashed or changed titles such as "Why do liberals...hate America" etc. or "Why are Americans...so stupid", etc.

I trust it won't change the general thrust of conversation.


That's fine, but where is my reply to neue regel's response. It was tagged as spam and said a moderator needed to approve it before it could be posted. That was yesterday and it's still not up.

That's a documented bug with the forum software. Happens to mods as well. Nothing we can do about it. No mod can 'approve' it because there's no feature for it. There is however a workaround...

FOR EVERYONE:

If you make a post containing a link it will most likely be tagged as spam. What you want to do is make your post without the link, post it, then after it's been posted edit it and then add your link. It'll pass the spam filter after that.



So Ryan try posting it without the link, then edit and add the link after. Contrary to what the message is telling you there is nothing a mod can do to approve it. The post should show up in the proper sequential order.


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« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 10:06:22 AM by Ahkenaten » Logged
ryan77
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« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2008, 10:22:56 AM »

Stereotyping will never get you anywhere ryan

Yet another intellectually lazy response. Just because a comment is a stereotype does not automatically mean it's incorrect. Saying that Muslims are more likely to commit acts of terrorism than any other ethnic group is a stereotype but it's also true. Saying women are physically weaker than than men is a stereotype but it's also true. Saying a young African-American male has a better chance of ending up in Prison than ending up in College is a stereotype, but it's a stereotype that has plenty of evidence to support it.

1. Do non-Muslim ethnic groups commit acts of terrorism? Of course.
2. Are some women physically stronger than some men? Certainly.
3. Do some young African-American men go to college instead of prision? Absolutely.

However, in any matter, it is impossible to operate off of or draw accurate conclusions based upon the exceptions. It's no different in politics. Certainly there are some extremely intelligent, insightful, and well-educated members of the Republican Party who vote for their candidate based upon a in-depth examination of that candidate's stance on many different issues.

Unfortunately, the Party is not defined by these members nor does the Republican establishment and leadership cater to these members. It is universially agreed - let me repeat - UNIVERSIALLY AGREED that in 2004 Dr. James Dobson and Dr. James Dobson alone single-handily handed George W. Bush a 2nd term in office by turning out millions of single-issue (abortion / gay marriage) Evangelical voters who went to the polls and pulled the lever for George W. Bush based SOLELY and ONLY upon the single issue of Abortion and/or the single issue Gay Marriage without any consideration whatsoever for Bush's position on the economy, on the war, on healthcare, on education, or any other major issue.  

In fact, after the election, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney picked up the phone and called Dr. Dobson to PERSONALLY thank him for handing them a 2nd term in the White House. That kind of single-issue power simply does not exist on the Democrat side - and thank God for that - because it's possibly the most frighteningly ignorant form of political participation a person can practice.
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ryan77
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« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2008, 10:30:43 AM »

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As jpn stated, their policies do not benefit the majority of Americans

How is it possible to look at the incredible prosperity since 1980 and come to this conclusion? There simply has to be some kind of disconnect.

That is a Cause-And-Effect logical fallacy. Just because there has been prosperity since 1980, and Republicans had control of the White House and Congress for much of the time since 1980, does not necessarily mean Republicans caused that prosperity.

A similiar fallacy is used all the time by Republicans regarding the lack of a major terrorist attack in this country since 9/11. Just because there hasn't been a major attack, does not necessarily or automatically mean Republican leadership is the cause. By all accounts, the original plans for the original 9/11 attacks took at least 10 years of careful planning to execute. That would mean we shouldn't expect a similar attack until at least 2011 and that would assume they began planning a second large scale attack the day after 9/11. 
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neue regel
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« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2008, 10:49:29 AM »

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That is a Cause-And-Effect logical fallacy. Just because there has been prosperity since 1980, and Republicans had control of the White House and Congress for much of the time since 1980, does not necessarily mean Republicans caused that prosperity.

That could certainly be true but at the same time, many give Clinton credit for the good times in the 90s and blame Bush for a tough economic 2007-08.

Quote
A similiar fallacy is used all the time by Republicans regarding the lack of a major terrorist attack in this country since 9/11. Just because there hasn't been a major attack, does not necessarily or automatically mean Republican leadership is the cause.

You are correct here. Our borders are too open and our society too free to stop someone willing to kill himself in the act. Much luck is involved. Bush has done some good things to make it more difficult, but he hasn't been good enough to eliminate the threat completely.
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2008, 04:53:55 PM »

We have to find a way to phase SS, as we know it out, and phase in personal retirement accounts. It will likely mean younger workers (like myself) will pay into SS without getting the usual returns back out.

No we don't.

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CBO’s projections indicate that future Social Security beneficiaries will receive larger benefits in retirement—and will have paid higher payroll taxes—than current beneficiaries do, even after adjustments have been made for inflation and even if the scheduled payments are reduced because the trust funds are exhausted. http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9649/MainText.3.1.shtml

Oh, and CBO projects that the trust funds will last until 2049.
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« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2008, 05:13:15 PM »

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That could certainly be true but at the same time, many give Clinton credit for the good times in the 90s and blame Bush for a tough economic 2007-08.

well, Clinton was responsible, in part, for the prosperity of the '90's.  He kept a balanced budget and actually cause prosperity.  For example, because of his anti-gun programs, he was known at gun shops as their "#1 salesman", because people flocked to buy guns fearing he would make it more difficult to acquire them.

  Bush is also responsible, in part, for the tough economic times we are having now because he is spending money like a school girl, the Iraq invasion is a huge money pit as well as his tax cuts for the rich.  He also came to power at the turning point of the decline of the dollar (from decades of debasing the currency) which his spending has only exasperated, but did not cause. 
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neue regel
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« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2008, 06:45:07 PM »

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Bush is also responsible, in part, for the tough economic times we are having now because he is spending money like a school girl

I agree with you here. Spending has been ridiculous. Obama's spending proposals should give everyone pause, too. The ramifications of sweeping tax increases could be devastating.
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