Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

gomper7

Full Member

Karma: +28/-10
Posts: 238

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2008, 08:15:36 AM »

Any one can die in office, get incapacitated through illness, or even resign or be impeached. So, sure, the VP candidate counts. So McCain selected someone with more experience than Obama, and less than say, the current standing VP. Obama chose someone with more experience and more connections in the party and government than he himself has. In this, he seems to have taken a page from GW's book. Not really sure why he would want to do that. It would appear McCain wants it clear that he will be in charge and will not be planing to take ques from his VP.

Which of these two stances looks more like the current administration?


	Logged

Biker Dude

A TRUE Liberal!
Forum Administrator
Hero Member

Karma: +157/-117
Posts: 2,143

Live to Ride, Ride to Live

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2008, 08:21:49 AM »

Quote from: Patton on August 31, 2008, 09:51:19 AM

Quote from: Biker Dude on August 31, 2008, 09:33:01 AM

Ah, you and your straw man again.

There is no straw in reducing mommy and daddy's history on down the line of risk factors when there are many more far more significant.

Do you really need an education in what the straw man argument is? I said you would be foolish to ignore it as a factor. You just said there are other factors far more signifigant. Which is what I said, before you said it. What you said was you didn't care about it. AT ALL. Your straw man. And you still lost the argument.

Quote

Or more to the point, care to point out where I said McCain is going to die in office?

Perhaps you can answer why you felt it important to state:

But it would be foolish to ignore the reality of his age and medical history.

Why would it be foolish to ignore his age and medical history?

Uh, because you would be foolish to ignore it? It's yet one more factor to consider. Unless all you care about is that 'R' after his name.

Quote

Especially in light of his VP choice having no international decision making experience.

The Veep choice who has more Executive experience than your man at the top of the ticket?

*sigh* Once again I tire of your lack of reading comprehension. Obama is NOT 'my man' as you so blithely put it. I have said many times I don't really like either. Put them both in the same category. Sure sounds like 'my man' doesn't it? Only if you are a jackass that can't read AND comprehend.

Quote

The Veep choice who actually won a contested election as opposed to the unopposed coronation of your man at the top of the ticket?

Again....I find Veep choices insignificant for reasons I stated earlier....because it really is about the two at the top of the ticket.

If you want to complain about the lack of experience at the bottom of the ticket...you can thank Obama and his empty resume' for setting the bar so incredibly low....

Yes, I know, you have made it quite clear that the 'R' is the most important thing. YOUR party has made it clear that sex and/or color is the most important factor. Me, I prefer more from my politicians, and I find them both lacking. For different reasons. And I find your comprehension skills disappointing.

For this reason, if you need to feel that you won, feel free. I tire of your making up things I didn't say and arguing against them, then me having to point out that I didn't say it. You won. I surrender. The thread is yours.


	Logged

Who will watch the watchers?

Now that it is over, what are we going to talk about?

freethinker

Hero Member

Karma: +110/-217
Posts: 2,477

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2008, 08:51:53 AM »

Quote from: gomper7 on September 01, 2008, 08:15:36 AM

Given the underlying politics involved , I am flabbergasted that you would have the balls to even ask that question.
We are supposed to conclude from your analysis of this that somehow Obama is more like Bush than McSame? YGBFKM!
Palin has more experience than Obama? Oh because she is an executive leader? Governor of a State with 600,000 people? Obama represented more people than that (748,189) in his 13th district when he was in the Illinois Senate! I suppose if she were a cub scout den leader that would brand her as an "executive leader"as well? What a joke!


« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 09:07:54 AM by freethinker »	Logged

Yes we can ...and now we will...

gomper7

Full Member

Karma: +28/-10
Posts: 238

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2008, 10:36:28 AM »

Quote from: freethinker on September 01, 2008, 08:51:53 AM

Quote from: gomper7 on September 01, 2008, 08:15:36 AM

No, I am not suggesting that Obama is more like Bush, I am saying McCain is not Bush. There are significant differences, and his choosing a relatively unknown Washington outsider is something he has done in difference to Bush that Obama did not.

McCain is not a Bush clone, something Bush made abundantly clear in the 2000 primaries. The loony religious right and the necons in the republican party were beside themselves at McCain's success in this years primaries for just this reason. You cannot undo that reality no matter how many times you childishly type McSame.


	Logged

freethinker

Hero Member

Karma: +110/-217
Posts: 2,477

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2008, 10:54:10 AM »

McCain has a 95% Bush compliant voting record... Maybe not a clone, but he is at least very much politically aligned with junior.
"McSame" is a practical shorthand way to remind all of the aforementioned indisputable fact.
I apologize if it seems "childish" to you... I do not however apologize for illuminating that alliance.


	Logged

Yes we can ...and now we will...

IamMe

Hero Member

Karma: +40/-142
Posts: 1,358

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2008, 02:32:59 PM »

My post has been flagged. You need to click reply to see it. (It's totally worth it, btw. One of the most awesome posts in the history of IAP.)


	Logged

\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell

If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.

Patton

Global Moderator
Hero Member

Karma: +113/-147
Posts: 1,953

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2008, 02:50:53 PM »

Quote from: freethinker on August 31, 2008, 08:24:44 PM

This first one is pretty close to a verbatim of my quote ...and it wasn't even very hard to find.

LOL...lets take a look, shall we?

Quote

Given the multifactorial nature of an individual’s risk, it can be argued that an individual’s familial risk of disease may, in fact, be a better indicator of the many complex interactions among predisposing genetic and environmental factors than can be captured by an individual’s own risk factors.

What does that say exactly?

Given the multifactorial nature of an individual’s risk...

It says "given the MANY, MANY INTER-RELATED nature of an individuals risk.....

So...we are dealing with a risk that has MANY INTER-RELATED factors...right?

Moving on:

it can be argued that an individual’s familial risk of disease may, in fact,

HMMMM...."it can be argued" means it is debatable....."risk of disease MAY, in fact"......MAY=maybe, might, not a fact.

Again...moving along:

"be a better indicator of the many complex interactions among"

Hmmmm....."many complex interactions" sounds like the "multifactorial nature" we addressed earlier.

So wher are we up to now?

Given the MANY INTER-RELATED nature of an individuals risk.....it can be DEBATED that an individual’s familial risk of disease MIGHT be a better indicator of the MANY COMPLEX INTERACTIONS among.......

Among what?

Predisposing genetic and environmental factors

And we discussed predisposing earlier....predisposing gaurentees NOTHING.

WOW! Impressive! Roll Eyes

Rather than dissect the rest of this crap, I'll hit the high points:

Quote

Scientists using powerful new genetics research methods have for the first time identified a snippet of DNA common to many people that dramatically increases the chances of developing heart disease.

Does McCain have this "snippet?"

What about Obama?

What if Obama has it and McCain doesn't?

Quote

As a result of the atherosclerotic process, cardiovascular disease is due to the interaction between environmental risk factors, such as diet, physical inactivity, smoking, and an individual's genetic makeup. Hundreds of genes are believed to be involved in the process of atherogenesis and the susceptibility to cardiovascular disease. These include genes that regulate lipid metabolism, inflammatory and immune responses, endothelial function, and coagulation. Other genes involved in obesity, insulin resistance, diabetes, elevated homocysteine levels, and hypertension have been identified, but their mechanisms in the atherosclerotic process are not well understood (Lusis, 2003). The genes involved in lipid metabolism have been extensively studied and identified, specifically the gene coding for the low-density lipoprotein (LDL) receptor.

Again we have a plethora of factors here..and again with the genetics that we have NO IDEA as to which candidate possesses them.

Key to my questions last time, something you ignored....was:

Just what weight do you want to add....more significant than sedentary life style, obesity, and smoking?

Go ahead and tell us all how extremely important mommy and daddy's health history is to you.....


	Logged

Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

-George S. Patton

Patton

Global Moderator
Hero Member

Karma: +113/-147
Posts: 1,953

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2008, 03:20:53 PM »

Quote from: IamMe on September 01, 2008, 02:32:59 PM

My post has been flagged. You need to click reply to see it. (It's totally worth it, btw. One of the most awesome posts in the history of IAP.)

What is awesome?

This, what I think you to believe the "Coup de grace" on McCains candidacy?

Over 83 percent of people who die of coronary heart disease are 65 or older.

How many people are going to die of SOMETHING?

How many people over 65 will die?

How do we predict, based on ones risk factors for dieng of heart disease?

Have you added up both candidates risk factors?

What are the major risk factors that can't be changed?

* Increasing age
* Male sex (gender)
* Heredity (including Race)

What are the major risk factors you can modify, treat or control by changing your lifestyle or taking medicine?

* Tobacco smoke
* High blood cholesterol
* High blood pressure
* Physical inactivity
* Obesity and overweight
* Diabetes mellitus

Add em up.....seem pretty even.

This factors in family history....and since Obama's dad died at age 46....we'll NEVER know how his daddy's health would relate to him....but he gets the ding anyway for being African-American.

Is this the "new tactic" to distract people from the bottom line that the BOTTOM of the REPUBLICAN ticket is on par with the TOP of the DEMOCRAT ticket with regards to experience....and the top of the Dem ticket is BELOW par from the BOTTOM of the Repub ticket with regards to Executive Office experience?

Quote from: gomper7 on August 31, 2008, 10:30:09 PM

Are you really claiming with this question not to see a difference between putting a woman with 2 years executive governmental experience a heart beat from the most powerful position in the country, and putting a man with zero years executive governmental experience actually IN the most powerful position in the land?

Yea....I think it is.


	Logged

freethinker

Hero Member

Karma: +110/-217
Posts: 2,477

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2008, 06:29:18 PM »

OK you had your spin ...pretty weak... Here's how I read it, phrase by phrase;

Given the multifactorial nature of an individual’s risk,
there are many factors to risk
it can be argued
... a good case can be made...
that an individual’s familial risk of disease
...family history of the disease in question...
may, in fact,
an interjection meaning a surer bet...
be a better indicator of the many complex interactions
within the complicated ramifications family history tells more...
among predisposing genetic and environmental factors
amoung other likely indicators...
than can be captured by an individual’s own risk factors.
...that can be known for sure, by the assesment of ones risk.
Here is the definition of predispose
pre·dis·pose /[pree-di-spohz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -posed, -pos·ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to give an inclination or tendency to beforehand; make susceptible: Genetic factors may predispose human beings to certain metabolic diseases.
2. to render subject, susceptible, or liable: The evidence predisposes him to public censure.
3. to dispose beforehand.
4. Archaic. to dispose of beforehand, as in a will, legacy, or the like.
–verb (used without object) 5. to give or furnish a tendency or inclination: an underground job that predisposes to lung infection.

Breaking it down into more comon speach;
There are many factors to a risk of heart disease, a good case can be made and it is a surer bet that, family history is the more reliable indicator of all the other indicators including enviorment and genetics in getting anyone's total known risk.

My origonal quote:

Quote

Family history is one of the best indicators of predisposition to many, many medical conditions heart disease is for sure one of them.

Its more eloquent and cautious as one would expect from a medical publication, but it is damn near a paraphrase of exactly what I said.
You may be a doctor Patton but this is english...not Latin...others can understand it too.


« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 07:44:18 PM by freethinker »	Logged

Yes we can ...and now we will...

Patton

Global Moderator
Hero Member

Karma: +113/-147
Posts: 1,953

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2008, 03:13:17 AM »

Quote from: freethinker on September 01, 2008, 06:29:18 PM

Here is the definition of predispose
pre·dis·pose /[pree-di-spohz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -posed, -pos·ing.
–verb (used with object) 1. to give an inclination or tendency to beforehand; make susceptible: Genetic factors may predispose human beings to certain metabolic diseases.
2. to render subject, susceptible, or liable: The evidence predisposes him to public censure.
3. to dispose beforehand.
4. Archaic. to dispose of beforehand, as in a will, legacy, or the like.
–verb (used without object) 5. to give or furnish a tendency or inclination: an underground job that predisposes to lung infection.

I can't believe you spend this much time nipping at McCains heel with this stuff...I do understand that having a candidate with a shell of a resume' will cause one to go to great lengths.....I'm not so sure "MAY in fact" is the same as "IS a surer bet" but this line of reasoning is pathetic and will not waste time convincing you...reminds me of trying to review literature with Pond Scum.

As far as "Predispose"....like I said earlier:

Predisposition=tendency

Standing on a curb is a predisposition to crossing a street...but not a gaurentee.

Poverty is a predisposition to a poor education...but not a gaurentee.

Being female predisposes one to pregnancy....but is not a gaurentee.

OK, so you didn't like my word...so I'll use yours:

Standing on a curb is an inclination to crossing a street...but not a gaurentee.

Poverty makes one liable to have a poor education...but not a gaurentee.

Being female make one susceptible to pregnancy....but is not a gaurentee.

And YET AGAIN....maybe a demonstration to how pathetic an arguement this is you NEVER answered:

Just what weight do you want to add....more significant than sedentary life style, obesity, and smoking?

Go ahead and tell us all how extremely important mommy and daddy's health history is to you.....

And since you havn't brought up the "genetic" crap again, I'm guessing since it is just as likely your guy gets the ding for it...you decided to shut up over it.

Did you stack the candidates risk factors THAT INCLUDE family history side-by-side?

Pretty even, huh?

Still wanna push "family history/Race" risk factor.....just HOW MUCH weight should it be given over EVERYTHING else in ones risk factor profile, Doctor?

THIS TIME...we await YOUR answers to ALL the above questions posed to you.


	Logged

Perrin

Hero Member

Karma: +80/-95
Posts: 1,844

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2008, 04:34:50 AM »

Back on the correct subject, Palin has more government executive experience than McCain or Obama. Obama has much more experience running larger programs successfully. Obama's campaign has over 2500 people working for it. Palin has 50 employees in the government in Alaska. McCain . . . well, he was a POW so that must mean something since that is always his defense for his lack of substance.


	Logged

A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.

In America, anyone can be president. That\\\'s one of the risks you take.

neue regel

Hero Member

Karma: +64/-297
Posts: 1,977

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2008, 04:46:36 AM »

Quote

Obama has much more experience running larger programs successfully.

Really? Nothing comes to mind and he doesn't speak to it on the campaign trail.


	Logged

Patton

Global Moderator
Hero Member

Karma: +113/-147
Posts: 1,953

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2008, 08:10:20 AM »

What does a Senator RUN?

His campaign?

Roll Eyes


	Logged

IamMe

Hero Member

Karma: +40/-142
Posts: 1,358

Re: Doesn't Palin demonstrate how empty all this talk of "experience" really is?

« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2008, 10:53:25 AM »

Quote from: Patton on September 02, 2008, 03:13:17 AM

Standing on a curb is a predisposition to crossing a street...but not a gaurentee.

Poverty is a predisposition to a poor education...but not a gaurentee.

Being female predisposes one to pregnancy....but is not a gaurentee.[/i]

This is a straw man. No one said McCain was guaranteed to die in office - just that it was substantially more likely than Obama dying in office.


	Logged

\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell

If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 8 Go Up

« previous next »