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Author Topic: What is the Essense of Being Human?  (Read 591 times)
daedalus 2.0
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« on: October 03, 2007, 08:05:37 PM »

Quote from: Callum
Most of the people you appear to be disageeing with are using the term 'animal' in a quite specific (no pun intended), precise, standard way.  You appear to be using it, and terms like 'species', in a different way.  So, without overthrowing the whole biological classification system, could you explain the differences between humans and animals, human species (of which you seem to think there are many) and non-human species?
 

Not in biological terms (this is in Philosophy section).  What makes us different from other animals?

Besides our excellent tool using/making skill, language ability, pattern recognition abilities, myth making skills, abstract reasoning and ability to consider the future in hypothetcial terms, - all these things other animals shown a small inkling of having as well - we don't seem to have much that seperates us except in how well we do those certain things.  Of course, if you claim that doing these things better make us human, then we fail in other terms: in cooperativeness of say, coral, speed of the cheetah, altruism of the bee, etc. (In other words, you can frame this in many ways.)

I don't think religion offers any answer here, either, since saying "god cares extra special for us" doesnt mean anything since 1) the term "god" is meaningless, and 2)flies in the face of the evidence.

To me, as a cheetah is known for its particular advantages, so are we. What makes us human is that we have some advantages in total. A sum total of odds and ends that make us particularly competative and able to think about it and communicate that feeling to each other.  The experience of meaning. It's all about mythology.
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2007, 09:45:27 AM »

The Universe has no purpose: We are no different than animals!

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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2007, 12:50:49 PM »

Quote from: Callum
Most of the people you appear to be disageeing with are using the term 'animal' in a quite specific (no pun intended), precise, standard way.  You appear to be using it, and terms like 'species', in a different way.  So, without overthrowing the whole biological classification system, could you explain the differences between humans and animals, human species (of which you seem to think there are many) and non-human species?
 

Not in biological terms (this is in Philosophy section).  What makes us different from other animals?

Besides our excellent tool using/making skill, language ability, pattern recognition abilities, myth making skills, abstract reasoning and ability to consider the future in hypothetcial terms, - all these things other animals shown a small inkling of having as well - we don't seem to have much that seperates us except in how well we do those certain things.  Of course, if you claim that doing these things better make us human, then we fail in other terms: in cooperativeness of say, coral, speed of the cheetah, altruism of the bee, etc. (In other words, you can frame this in many ways.)

I don't think religion offers any answer here, either, since saying "god cares extra special for us" doesnt mean anything since 1) the term "god" is meaningless, and 2)flies in the face of the evidence.

To me, as a cheetah is known for its particular advantages, so are we. What makes us human is that we have some advantages in total. A sum total of odds and ends that make us particularly competative and able to think about it and communicate that feeling to each other.  The experience of meaning. It's all about mythology.

Well apart from the fact that we have a magical soul (obviously) I think humans just do all of those things to a greater degree than other animals.
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2007, 05:06:38 PM »

Opposable thumbs and a highly developed brain. A winning combination.

Apes have opposable thumbs, and dolphins have highly developed brains. One or the other isn't good enough.

Other than that the only difference is that we spend more time watching tv.


IMO, the essence of being human, I would describe in the way an old friend said it to me.

Life is a process, where you trade your body for your mind.
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2007, 05:10:04 PM »

So we are half ape, half dolphin?

A dape?
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2007, 09:59:11 PM »

So we are half ape, half dolphin?

A dape?

That would make us "dopes" actually.  Tongue
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2007, 10:32:54 PM »

So we are half ape, half dolphin?

A dape?

That would make us "dopes" actually.  Tongue

Niiiiice.
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2007, 10:59:28 PM »

The Universe has no purpose: We are no different than animals!



But some animals are different from other animals. And we can compare ourselves to plants, viruses, minerals and other aspects of the Universe.



I'm not saying there is a big mystery about who "we" are, it's just interesting to sometimes consider us as part of the Universe and other times, to consider us as seperate, or different.
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« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2007, 01:17:34 AM »

Language - with all its benefits and drawbacks.
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bringbackwigs
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« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2007, 06:33:47 PM »

The essence is choosing.

We choose to eat, sleep, drink, fuck, kill, rape, love, smile, hate and everything else. Religion takes this away from us. There is no choice in following. It's fascism at the highest order.

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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2007, 05:39:39 AM »

The essence is choosing.

We choose to eat, sleep, drink, fuck, kill, rape, love, smile, hate and everything else. Religion takes this away from us. There is no choice in following. It's fascism at the highest order.


As someone who is leaning towards Determinism, I have some issue with that, but your point is well taken.
I wonder, though, do apes choose?  It might be anthro-pride that we look at all other animals and think they all simply act on instinct; without choice.

I have to wonder, though, if an alien race looking at us from afar would come to the same conclusion.  Would they just see us as operating on dumb instinct?

Maybe we can say this: her is something that allows us override our instinct more powerfully than other animals: we can fast (I'm not sure about some of your other examples, since I think other animals exhibit some of those behaviors: we just can't know what they are thinking. And what can't be spoken about, we must remain silent.)

Is our quality, as Callum suggests, language and the ability to create a narrative:

I can create a narrative in which the future may change due to my fasting...


gotta go - sorry!
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« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2007, 05:45:22 AM »

Quote from: BBW
Religion takes this away from us. There is no choice in following.

If this was true, those of faith would not sin.
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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2007, 06:17:03 AM »

Quote from: BBW
Religion takes this away from us. There is no choice in following.

If this was true, those of faith would not sin.

Edit: Religion attempts to take this away from us.
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« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2007, 07:49:01 AM »

Quote from: BBW
Religion takes this away from us. There is no choice in following.

If this was true, those of faith would not sin.

Edit: Religion attempts to take this away from us.

It "attempts" to take away nothing.

To "take away" is active.

It provides rules for life with rewards and benefits for adhering to the rules, and consequences for not.

This is what our criminal code provides also.

Following rules is passive.

It is still your choice to adhere to the rules and either reap rewards or pay consequences.

Nothing is "taken" away.
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2007, 10:21:45 AM »

Quote from: BBW
Religion takes this away from us. There is no choice in following.

If this was true, those of faith would not sin.

Edit: Religion attempts to take this away from us.

It "attempts" to take away nothing.

To "take away" is active.

It provides rules for life with rewards and benefits for adhering to the rules, and consequences for not.

This is what our criminal code provides also.

Following rules is passive.

It is still your choice to adhere to the rules and either reap rewards or pay consequences.

Nothing is "taken" away.

1. What rewards and consequences? Doesn't Xinanity teach that non-belivers will go to Hell?  In fact, xianity does and this means that this religion doesn't allow you to opt out.  For example, i can't claim to be Hindu and reap the rewards of Hinduism, according to Xian dogma.  That is EVERYONE is forced to be judged by the xian god.

You might say this is payment of the consequesnces, but not only are some people unaware of xianity, some believe something entirely different and it is not a choice that they make in disbelieveing your religion, they simply find no reason to believe it - just as you are not worried about being judged by their gods.

So, in order for you to opt in or out of your religion, you must accept it as real and possible.  One doesn't opt out of Zorastianism, you simply aren't aware of it, or care.

So, following the rules is not passive when your religion claims that ALL will be judged - unless you are claiming that your religion is just one more myth narrative in the world and holds no special truth.  It's not like speeding and thinking you won't get caught. Everyone alive will die and be held to the Laws that govern, whether xianity is right, or atheism, or Hinduism.

2. However, I agree in a way. Religion is simply a set of laws, written by men, in an effort to make people act according to their wishes.  Don't like gay people? Write a law, tell a story about them being killed and then say it came from your god.  Who dares argue with someone who speaks to god, and god speaks back?!

So, in the regard to following rules, it is somewhat passive. But actually, you still have to act. In order to NOT pay taxes, you can be passive, but it is an act.  ("You can choose to not decide, but still have made a choice").

Religion, is a set of laws (and rituals) that try to get people to conform to a certain attitude in society. Often, religion also includes "niceties" about how to feel better about yourself and others. Meditations, as it were.

Most people concern themselves with the niceties and ignore the laws. (How many Xians have married a divorced woman?) Basically, people do what they want and justify their actions later.
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