Abraxas
Global Moderator
Hero Member
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Posts: 4,097
"You do not speak for the rest"
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« on: October 06, 2007, 04:18:05 PM » |
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 I am creating artificial life, declares US gene pioneerCraig Venter, the controversial DNA researcher involved in the race to decipher the human genetic code, has built a synthetic chromosome out of laboratory chemicals and is poised to announce the creation of the first new artificial life form on Earth. The announcement, which is expected within weeks and could come as early as Monday at the annual meeting of his scientific institute in San Diego, California, will herald a giant leap forward in the development of designer genomes. It is certain to provoke heated debate about the ethics of creating new species and could unlock the door to new energy sources and techniques to combat global warming. MORE... A little more difficult then "putting the plus to minus and the minus to plus" but sooooooo much neater. Let the religon vs. science debate BEGIN! |
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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like its from Neptune.
- Noam Chomsky
... you can almost see the high water mark - that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back.
- Hunter S. Thompson
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micfranklin
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« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2007, 07:54:43 PM » |
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I think I know how this might play out:
Science: This creation may one day cure cancer or AIDS
Religion: Only God can create life.
Or something along these lines.
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2007, 11:46:34 AM » |
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It's worth keeping an eye on, but one of the hallmarks of psuedoscience is that the person making the claim uses the media to present the study, or work (a la, Behe and Dembski, and other I.D'ists).
If this guy really had something, you'd expect it to go through an exhausting peer-review process, because he would be interested in the truth, not the shock value.
I will apologize for my lack of faith if it turns out he really has created a new life form.
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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
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2112
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2007, 01:46:36 PM » |
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Oh, that's wonderful. He's taken all the fun out of making a kid.  |
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Totino
High Society
Hero Member
Karma: +105/-133
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2007, 04:07:23 PM » |
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Haha. You raise a good point.
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 \\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
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Cabrini Green
Full Member
Karma: +12/-59
Posts: 136
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2007, 08:43:00 PM » |
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We need to learn how to do that in the hood. We need as many soldiers as possible to fight the powers at be, son. (no homo)
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\"Do you really believe if we replace a bunch of corporate Republicans with a bunch of corporate Democrats, that anything meaningful is going to change? This has to stop. It\'s that simple.\"
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tejtej
ta terjast
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Full Member
Karma: +22/-2
Posts: 140
a.k.a. COS
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2007, 08:27:26 PM » |
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He's taken all the fun out of making a kid. He is making 1 chromosome, 381 genes, 0.58 Mbp. Human genome has 23 chromosomes, 20 000 genes, 3000 Mbp. Easy to see which that the old technique is more enjoyable (and cheaper). |
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Slovenc, tvoja zemlja je zdrava in pridnim nje lega najprava.
Pólje, vinograd, gora, morjé, ruda, kupčija tebe rede.
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Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 04:40:53 PM » |
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If he is successful in his ultimate goal, he will have proved that it is possible for an intelligent agent to design and construct life. And here is the punch line, he will be no closer to explaining how life could have formed and developed by natural processes.
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 07:29:54 PM » |
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I think what it shows is that an intelligent group of scienctists can mimic and manipulate pre-existing material. I'm not really sure what Book you are reading that suggests anything more.
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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
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Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2007, 07:49:00 AM » |
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I think what it shows is that an intelligent group of scienctists can mimic and manipulate pre-existing material. I'm not really sure what Book you are reading that suggests anything more.
We don't need help from this gentleman to show that intelligent designers have no trouble mimicking material cause. It takes almost no thought to come up with multitudes of examples. I wonder when someone is going to come forward with an observable and causally complete example of material cause(s) that mimics the design process when the object contains both a high degree of specification and complexity? For example items like a computer or DNA that contain high entropy information superimposed on a low entropy carrier (encoded deterministic information). |
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2007, 10:19:19 AM » |
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I think what it shows is that an intelligent group of scienctists can mimic and manipulate pre-existing material. I'm not really sure what Book you are reading that suggests anything more.
We don't need help from this gentleman to show that intelligent designers have no trouble mimicking material cause. It takes almost no thought to come up with multitudes of examples. I wonder when someone is going to come forward with an observable and causally complete example of material cause(s) that mimics the design process when the object contains both a high degree of specification and complexity? For example items like a computer or DNA that contain high entropy information superimposed on a low entropy carrier (encoded deterministic information). :roll: ID: Some things appear to be designed and can't be found in Nature. When found in nature, they are declared to have been Designed. See the circularity? When shown an example of "complexity", or your other buzz words, in nature you declare they can't possibly be found in nature without having been designed. It appears designed, therefore it is designed, since it appears designed.... RF, I would have thought the last few months of scientific discoveries had made you realize the fatal flaws of ID. Especially in light of bacterial dna merging with other dna to add massive leaps in the amount of information - something you declared couldn't happen, and yet was discovered. But, religion is a hard thing to kick, I guess. |
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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
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Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 07:48:29 PM » |
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I think what it shows is that an intelligent group of scienctists can mimic and manipulate pre-existing material. I'm not really sure what Book you are reading that suggests anything more.
We don't need help from this gentleman to show that intelligent designers have no trouble mimicking material cause. It takes almost no thought to come up with multitudes of examples. I wonder when someone is going to come forward with an observable and causally complete example of material cause(s) that mimics the design process when the object contains both a high degree of specification and complexity? For example items like a computer or DNA that contain high entropy information superimposed on a low entropy carrier (encoded deterministic information). :roll: ID: Some things appear to be designed and can't be found in Nature. When found in nature, they are declared to have been Designed. See the circularity? In your purposely ill-framed description of course I see the circularity. Some things appear designed and contain characteristics that are found in things that are designed. No items found in nature that have a causally complete history contain these characteristics. Material mechanisms seem to be incapable of generating things with these characteristics. Design is easily able to generate these characteristics, therefore it is reasonable to infer design when we find these characteristics. Notice here there is no circular argument. When shown an example of "complexity", or your other buzz words, in nature you declare they can't possibly be found in nature without having been designed. No, the natural world is full of items that contain these markers for design. What I would like is for someone to describe how material mechanisms could construct something with these markers. Can anyone come up with even one example of a material process generating new specification and complexity? It appears designed, therefore it is designed, since it appears designed.... Why do you insist on reconstructing your opponents argument? Why do you hide from the true descriptions? RF, I would have thought the last few months of scientific discoveries had made you realize the fatal flaws of ID. Especially in light of bacterial dna merging with other dna to add massive leaps in the amount of information - something you declared couldn't happen, and yet was discovered. Is this another one of your false claims? Since when does copying and recombining DNA generate unique information? Let's step through this claim of yours and I will be happy to show you where you err. |
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« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 07:30:12 AM by Reasoned Faith »
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2007, 08:04:00 PM » |
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RF, philosophically, ID is a circular argument. Premise: Things designed can't be found in nature. 1. We see something that seems complex in nature, so we determine what it has in common with designed things. 2. Once we find the commonalities we can declare it is designed. Conclusion: Since we can't find designed things in nature, it must have been designed... as we stated in the premise. Humans are wonderful pattern recognition machines. We can find patterns where there are none. Studies have shown this. ID is just a continuation of this process. RF, if your god wanted him to know he did something, he'd let you know in a more classy method, not waiting for 2,000 years of the church killing scientists until they finally can work without fear of religious persecution and then find a little signature in the dna. This isn't Blade Runner. |
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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
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