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Author Topic: Misquoting Jesus  (Read 1421 times)
Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #75 on: January 09, 2008, 08:42:13 PM »

How do you know when God would exersize his providence of life and death, and when it is not God?

Biblical doctrine.  God revealed to us how he acts and under what circumstances.

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I submit that the Tsunami, Andrea Yates or the 9-11 asswipes could fit into the Bible seamlessly.  Can you tell me what the difference is, besides the claim?  I still have yet to have a good explanation.

Doctrine covers all three of these cases.  The time for the need to demonstrate authority from God is over, therefore we should not find anyone who is granted authority to act for God.  Weather events and other so called "acts of God" are also well explained in the Bible as the natural concequence of the degredation and disordering of this world.

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Surely, its not so easy just to say "Anything Good = God" since from an independent observer, I see no "Good" that came from the Flood, Moses or Samson, except through the claim of the story.

How can you judge whether God is acting or not, if by all accounts, killing helpless women and children seems, by all measures, Bad?

I see no way that you can reconcile this.

Indeed prior commitements have a way of preventing understanding.  It seems futile for me to attempt to explain it to you.  If anyone else has a desire to discuss this, please chime in.

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Especially since all you have is the Bible. What about events that happen outside the Bible?  Are they open to interpretation?

Any true and correct worldview must comport with all our observations.

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9-11 was because God wanted to kill gays, lesbians and liberals?  Or was it an evil event?

How do you help us figure out which?

How do you "Account for it"?

People have free will and are able to choose to do evil.  Those who do not enjoy a degree of direct protection from God are subject to the concequences the effects of this world or the actions of of those who wish to do evil. 
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2008, 09:25:39 PM »

How do you know when God would exersize his providence of life and death, and when it is not God?

Biblical doctrine.  God revealed to us how he acts and under what circumstances.

Quote
I submit that the Tsunami, Andrea Yates or the 9-11 asswipes could fit into the Bible seamlessly.  Can you tell me what the difference is, besides the claim?  I still have yet to have a good explanation.

Doctrine covers all three of these cases.  The time for the need to demonstrate authority from God is over, therefore we should not find anyone who is granted authority to act for God.  Weather events and other so called "acts of God" are also well explained in the Bible as the natural concequence of the degredation and disordering of this world.

Quote
Surely, its not so easy just to say "Anything Good = God" since from an independent observer, I see no "Good" that came from the Flood, Moses or Samson, except through the claim of the story.

How can you judge whether God is acting or not, if by all accounts, killing helpless women and children seems, by all measures, Bad?

I see no way that you can reconcile this.

Indeed prior commitements have a way of preventing understanding.  It seems futile for me to attempt to explain it to you.  If anyone else has a desire to discuss this, please chime in.

Quote
Especially since all you have is the Bible. What about events that happen outside the Bible?  Are they open to interpretation?

Any true and correct worldview must comport with all our observations.

Quote
9-11 was because God wanted to kill gays, lesbians and liberals?  Or was it an evil event?

How do you help us figure out which?

How do you "Account for it"?

People have free will and are able to choose to do evil.  Those who do not enjoy a degree of direct protection from God are subject to the concequences the effects of this world or the actions of of those who wish to do evil. 


So, wait a minute. Did you answer the question?  You said Biblical doctrine, but I'm unclear.

Which recent acts were caused by God, or were done by an agent of God?  Or, as you say,

"The time for the need to demonstrate authority from God is over, therefore we should not find anyone who is granted authority to act for God."

So, are we to understand that God doesn't work through anyone today?



As you can imagine, I am truly holding my tongue since you know this all sounds utterly ridiculous to me.

It seems that you are saying that you can judge what you subjectively wish and attribute it to God. You say it's in the Bible, but last I checked you have 30,000+ official interpretations - some are literal, some are liberal.  And not everyone agrees that God no longer displays his authority through people (not to mention the many other views of God that you reject).


In the end, it all sounds like a lot of woo woo.  Plenty of Sound and Fury, signifying nothing.

So, help me understand.  What can you point to that was definitely an act of God during our life time.  It seems the Bible tells you God DOES kill children, and each prophet has brought his new twist on understanding God, so it seems that a legitimate new prophet would likewise shake things up (as Jesus did, or Mohammad, or Smith).

If fact, if the Bible teaches us anything, it is that God can suprise us.  Perhaps God was meaning to send Jesus for a final Hoedown but now has decided to send another prophet. (God has been known to make Provisional Prophesies, correct?)

I know you presume to know God's Will, so maybe you can tell me what God will do next, according to the Bible?
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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #77 on: January 10, 2008, 05:24:32 PM »

Thank you for reminding me that you don't ask questions to gain understanding, that you have a prior commitment that everything I might say is utterly ridiculous to you and that it is all you can do not to laugh.  Thank you for not letting me waste time with your questions.  I pity you. Good day.

If anyone else has any further comments, chime in.
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #78 on: January 10, 2008, 05:47:49 PM »

RF, I have an honest problem with this. I don't see how it is reconciled.  You are the one claiming that you can Reason it through.

I am having a mature conversation with Pat about this very subject.

Surely you can see the valid objection.  Whether I am being honest about finding it all a bit silly doesn't negate the actual problem.

The Bible never said defending your Faith was going to be easy. I know in some cases it says to run from someone like me, but in other places it says to try harder.


All I am asking is a question that any 12 year old will ask at some point, and are you telling me that the best answer the Bible has is, "You just have to have Faith."?  Or, as you once told me, in order to believe in God you have to first Believe in God (essentially).

I suppose if I just believed in God, I would just accept these things as true, eh?

I don't think so.

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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
\"Hitler burns Anne Frank for a day, and it\'s Evil.
God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
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