Delta Nine
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Posts: 130
The Rapture? I'm not worried. Santa will save me.
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« on: October 11, 2007, 05:44:59 PM » |
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One of my pet peeves is when people try to tell me that everything happens for a reason. Where is your evidence for this? Who is making these things happen for a reason? When a kid chases a ball out onto the street and gets run over, it happened for a reason? Did some magic man decide this kid needed to die? Is there some spirit world that decided this? What force is acting on these events? My cousin had his first baby the other day. (first grandchild in the fam) This baby girl was born on the anniversary of my grandmothers death. Her middle name, which they had picked out prior to the birth is the same as our grandmother. WOW! THIS MUST MEAN SOMETHING!!  Lets look at this with a little logic and reason. They had a 50 50 chance of having a boy or girl. There is a 2 in 365 chance that this baby would be born on this anniversary of grandmas death or on her birthday. Unlikely but certainly not a long shot. They made her middle name the same as grandmas. My cousin and grandma were very close. This is the first grandchild in the family. I think its reasonable and maybe even expected to use grandmas name to honor her. Plus her name was Leslie so its not like they had to give her an old school bad sounding name. What kind of mental state do you have to be in to believe some magical force made this happen? How could you not pick my above reasoning? Do people enjoy lying to themselves and playing make believe? It sounds nice so lets go ahead and believe it? Do we really need to give every special coincidence some meaning? |
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Shipwreck
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Posts: 28
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2007, 06:26:27 PM » |
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Is there a teleos to the cosmos? Is there a presence or will or impulse, that gives the universe a broad direction? Is there a self transcending drive at the heart of the cosmos? Is what we see random chance or directionality, the hand and will of God or Spirit?
If your soul has never experienced contact with God; Then the only way you have of looking at this universe is from the viewpoint of materialism. Your world view only goes to the depth of the material. So everything , all of it that you see or can imagine, all of you is only the result of chance.
If you have had contact with God presence, and I think that the classic mystic teachers, like John of the cross and Christ's words about poverty have to be heeded, because only real poverty, not money, but ego, being very humble, allows you to see or to feel or to know that God is real. Then it makes more sense when people say things happen for a reason. Its impossible to know for sure if any given specific incident is ordained but people can feel confidence in knowing that God is at work in the universe in general.
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bringbackwigs
Professional Post-Whore
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Please refrain from taking my posts seriously
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2007, 07:49:13 PM » |
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One of my pet peeves is when people try to tell me that everything happens for a reason. Where is your evidence for this? Who is making these things happen for a reason? When a kid chases a ball out onto the street and gets run over, it happened for a reason? Did some magic man decide this kid needed to die? Is there some spirit world that decided this? What force is acting on these events? My cousin had his first baby the other day. (first grandchild in the fam) This baby girl was born on the anniversary of my grandmothers death. Her middle name, which they had picked out prior to the birth is the same as our grandmother. WOW! THIS MUST MEAN SOMETHING!! Lets look at this with a little logic and reason. They had a 50 50 chance of having a boy or girl. There is a 2 in 365 chance that this baby would be born on this anniversary of grandmas death or on her birthday. Unlikely but certainly not a long shot. They made her middle name the same as grandmas. My cousin and grandma were very close. This is the first grandchild in the family. I think its reasonable and maybe even expected to use grandmas name to honor her. Plus her name was Leslie so its not like they had to give her an old school bad sounding name. What kind of mental state do you have to be in to believe some magical force made this happen? How could you not pick my above reasoning? Do people enjoy lying to themselves and playing make believe? It sounds nice so lets go ahead and believe it? Do we really need to give every special coincidence some meaning? I get that way to. Try telling neorealist that the Cubs lost for a reason, he'll bitch slap you. It really is stupid. It's something people tell themselves to make them feel better about shitty things happening to them. I much rather go with the phrase "shit happens". Because as Forrest Gump says: sometimes. Sometimes shit happens, sometimes it doesn't. |
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In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain  |
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Jericoacoara
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Posts: 895
Fortaleza IAP 1.0
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2007, 03:01:57 AM » |
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Well, I am not a christian but sometimes I use the expression "Everything happens for a reason". I think the equivalent can be applied across many religions, eg karma, Allah's will. It sort of means the same thing. It is like a destiny sort of thinking. The way I think, it is like a coincidence mixed with destiny. I mean, think about the people who post in IAP. Most were total coincidence, we happened to google on a specifc day and IAP came up. Then we posted which lead to other events. It is one big chain reaction, caused by luck, coincidence with actions. Anyway, I am not sure if all that made any sense. It made sense in my head but when I re read this post, it seemed to make less sense.  |
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The greatest tragedy is for a person to die with the music still within them.
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2112
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2007, 04:49:26 AM » |
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So, Delta, do you like your neice? Is she cute or what?  |
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Delta Nine
Full Member
Karma: +21/-125
Posts: 130
The Rapture? I'm not worried. Santa will save me.
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2007, 07:03:12 AM » |
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So, Delta, do you like your neice? Is she cute or what? If shes my cousins daughter is she my niece? Ya, shes cute. |
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2112
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2007, 07:04:14 AM » |
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So, Delta, do you like your neice? Is she cute or what? If shes my cousins daughter is she my niece? Ya, shes cute. Kind of, maybe a second cousin. I'm not sure. |
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PinkTickingClocks
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Posts: 182
Be always at war with your vices.
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 07:24:10 AM » |
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Things happen no need for reason.
A simple answer, but i think it to be the most complicated.
When you try to reason the reasons for why something happens you should just concluded it happened.
You can't be exact with probabilities; you can only assume.
You think your getting closer as you approach zero; think about what zero is: Zero is undefined so ultimately your reaching nothing.
"Everything is the same, even though it's different."
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« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 07:25:49 AM by PinkTickingClocks »
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If only the transcendent moments were as timeless as a broken clock.
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Baldar
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 08:29:46 AM » |
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I think everything has a cause. The reasoning behind the cause is not fully understood and you cannot fully understand that reason.
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IamMe
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2007, 12:02:26 PM » |
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I think everything has a cause. The reasoning behind the cause is not fully understood and you cannot fully understand that reason.
Cause and reason are not the same thing. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Baldar
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2007, 12:28:15 PM » |
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I don't think anyone said they were. I certainly did not. Perhaps you need to reread the quote.
I would state that until you can fully understand the cause, you cannot undertand the underlying reason if there is one.
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IamMe
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2007, 12:42:38 PM » |
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I don't think anyone said they were. I certainly did not. Perhaps you need to reread the quote.
I would state that until you can fully understand the cause, you cannot undertand the underlying reason if there is one.
Then I'd agree with your clarification (this is slightly different from what you said 1st time round). Since we don't have infinite knowledge of everything we cannot 100% rule out some objective reason for everything. But we have no reason to believe there is one. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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Baldar
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2007, 01:19:01 PM » |
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Its the same thing. You make too many assumptions.
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Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2007, 01:27:29 PM » |
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I see an abundance of evidence from this world that indicates a higher purpose and reason for why the world works the way it does. IamMe, I am currious what makes you say there is no reason to believe there is a higher purpose or reason beyond basic cause and effect.
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Delta Nine
Full Member
Karma: +21/-125
Posts: 130
The Rapture? I'm not worried. Santa will save me.
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2007, 02:05:38 PM » |
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Here we go again.
EDITED.
See "Forum Civility" at top of page.
What part of the thread do you not understand?
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« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 02:30:58 PM by Patton »
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