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Author Topic: SETI  (Read 1763 times)
daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #90 on: November 22, 2007, 07:49:14 PM »

Yes, but how? Since the claim is that it couldn't have been a spontaneous creation, that rules out God.
So, we seem to be firmly in the realm of Materialism. Wink
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tadpol
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« Reply #91 on: November 22, 2007, 09:13:01 PM »

I'm unclear why 1/10^400 is treated as 0.
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Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #92 on: November 23, 2007, 05:14:48 AM »

Yes, but how? Since the claim is that it couldn't have been a spontaneous creation, that rules out God.
So, we seem to be firmly in the realm of Materialism. Wink

You must not realize the scientific definition of spontaneous in this context.  Neither Orgel nor I was speaking of a design event (which also are not spontaneous processes, they require planning).
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Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #93 on: November 23, 2007, 05:21:54 AM »

I'm unclear why 1/10^400 is treated as 0.

It is not.  In probability theory, the probability of an event occurring must also consider the probabilistic resources available to act to cause the event.  If the resources are sufficient to explain the event then chance is considered a viable explanation.  If on the other hand, after exhausting all opportunities to cause the event, the combined probability is still low (in experimental statistics 4.4%, 2*sigma is often used as a limit)then chance can be safely ruled out.
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2007, 02:33:22 PM »

Yes, but how? Since the claim is that it couldn't have been a spontaneous creation, that rules out God.
So, we seem to be firmly in the realm of Materialism. Wink

You must not realize the scientific definition of spontaneous in this context.  Neither Orgel nor I was speaking of a design event (which also are not spontaneous processes, they require planning).

So, which design event created the creator?
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #95 on: November 23, 2007, 04:30:48 PM »

So, which design event created the creator?

They're working on an explanation for that. Something called Super Intelligent Design. There's a S.I.D. Institute in Portland.
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illy
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« Reply #96 on: November 23, 2007, 07:22:31 PM »

So, which design event created the creator?

They're working on an explanation for that. Something called Super Intelligent Design. There's a S.I.D. Institute in Portland.


That's so 2006, man. People in the know have moved on to Super Duper Intelligent Design.
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Reasoned Faith
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« Reply #97 on: November 24, 2007, 06:20:06 AM »

Humor is a good place to hide when you cannot attack the substance of the argument.  It is particularly effective if you can falsely assign a weak argument to your opponent and then make fun of it too.  That way you have an opportunity to falsely discredit to boot.  The three of you should be proud.
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #98 on: November 24, 2007, 09:34:22 AM »

No humor. Just answer, Reasoned Faith: Who designed the designer?
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« Reply #99 on: November 24, 2007, 10:03:39 AM »

No humor. Just answer, Reasoned Faith: Who designed the designer?

The scientific method requires empirical data.  We have data that indicates items and events found in the natural world are better explained by design.  We have data that indicates these items and events demonstrate characteristics that are thus far only found in items that were designed.  We have data that demonstrates design is capable of generating many of these items and events. 

However we don't have any data about the character or origin of designer from the distant past.  Perhaps you would do better to ask your question in the philosophy section.
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« Reply #100 on: November 24, 2007, 10:30:05 AM »

Quote
However we don't have any data about the character or origin of designer from the distant past.

But then this means that the designer can't be understood scientifically. No data=no science. Even if there is evidence of design, this evidence can't be supported by further enquiry. Thus the idea of a designer is not science, but philosophy. And philosophy is not the answer to scientifical problems.

So ID is a dead end, an answer that summarizes as "we know that we can't know". That's philosophy, not science.
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« Reply #101 on: November 24, 2007, 11:23:06 AM »

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However we don't have any data about the character or origin of designer from the distant past.

But then this means that the designer can't be understood scientifically. No data=no science.

Right, the nature of the designer cannot part of any current inquiry without some way to test it.

Quote
Even if there is evidence of design, this evidence can't be supported by further enquiry.

Sure it can.  One can go on to test how it was designed and constructed and exactly what each component does.  This is not a dead end at all. Modern medicine follows this approach very successfully by reverse engineering biological systems to determine how the systems might be repaired when broken and to understand how they can be supplemented to better perform when exposed to harmful chemicals and pathogens.
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illy
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« Reply #102 on: November 24, 2007, 11:34:07 AM »

There is no substance to the argument, only vague statements and mathematical falsehoods.
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« Reply #103 on: November 24, 2007, 12:11:00 PM »

There is no substance to the argument, only vague statements and mathematical falsehoods.

Such is the nature of the foundation behind SETI and the idea that life might spontaneously erupt from chemic processes wherever in the universe conditions can support life.  You have hit once again on the problem of this simplistic narrative.
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tadpol
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« Reply #104 on: November 24, 2007, 01:56:05 PM »

Without knowledge of the designer why do you suggest design is a local/unique phenomenon?
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