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Author Topic: What do Christians agree on?  (Read 793 times)
Technocrat
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« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2007, 12:04:36 AM »

If there's so much influence of atheists, then why are they the most hated, distrusted minority, even lower than Muslims? Why do I not have an atheist television network, while Christians have dozens?
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« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2007, 12:31:29 AM »

speak for yourself I am Canadian eh... we are the most multicultural country in the world......  we have zero christian radio stations and I think maybe 1 christian tv station.

Truth be told I don't hate atheist or agnostics or those who believe differently than I, for who am I to judge?  who am I to think that I know so much and know better?  I am not, yet I hate being lumped into a category b/c you don't know me... you just know that I believe that there is something out there that created us and this world.  And you judge me and my choice to believe that.  It hurts b/c you didn't take the time to get to know me.

And you put up walls of anger and frustration and make claims about who you think I am and what you think I will do. I am not like that.  I have enough questions and concerns of my own, I have enough doubts and a bit of knowledge to think that maybe just maybe you're on to something and maybe just maybe you have it right.

Also I have fear for those who ask questions and get information and then scoff at it.  I have fear that if there really is a god (I  do believe there to be one) then what happens to me if I shared info with someone and it was wrong or if I didn't do it right and now that person has knowledge.  That freaks me out to be honest.  The bible states we will be judged on what we know.  Well if we know about God and there is a God and we chose to deny him then what??? really then what?  Where does it put everyone that learned and turned their back, and where does that put me if I played a part in that?  That scares me. 

But then if God is full of mercy and grace and can redeem all things... that is if there is a God then we should all be good right? 

I suppose we will never know for certain until the day comes and we leave this earth.
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« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2007, 02:36:40 AM »

D9 I can provide just as many if not more instances of agnostic or atheist influence on a society.  All I have to do is turn on a television, computer or go to a theater and there I can see so much against God and the bible.  It goes both ways.

But really how do you justify putting all who believe into one category, how can you be so bias and racist to assume that all who believe are the same.  You claim to hate christianity yet you out of everyone spend more time in here pouring through the posts and spewing crap towards those who believe.

You have no idea who any of us are, you see we believe and you just spit your words at us, and yell that we're corrupting and condemning you and your right to chose and your beliefs.  You have no idea.  Yet you hate, you hate so much.

Well I think in this particular case his indignation for Christianity can be fully justified, for that matter all indignation towards Christianity can be justified. Why do you feel the need to inveigh against his stance regarding religion anymore than you do for his stance regarding politics? You seem to be giving religion an abnormally thick wall of respect in which does not deserve.   

speak for yourself I am Canadian eh... we are the most multicultural country in the world......  we have zero christian radio stations and I think maybe 1 christian tv station.

Truth be told I don't hate atheist or agnostics or those who believe differently than I, for who am I to judge?  who am I to think that I know so much and know better?  I am not, yet I hate being lumped into a category b/c you don't know me... you just know that I believe that there is something out there that created us and this world.  And you judge me and my choice to believe that.  It hurts b/c you didn't take the time to get to know me.

And you put up walls of anger and frustration and make claims about who you think I am and what you think I will do. I am not like that.  I have enough questions and concerns of my own, I have enough doubts and a bit of knowledge to think that maybe just maybe you're on to something and maybe just maybe you have it right.

Also I have fear for those who ask questions and get information and then scoff at it.  I have fear that if there really is a god (I  do believe there to be one) then what happens to me if I shared info with someone and it was wrong or if I didn't do it right and now that person has knowledge.  That freaks me out to be honest.  The bible states we will be judged on what we know.  Well if we know about God and there is a God and we chose to deny him then what??? really then what?  Where does it put everyone that learned and turned their back, and where does that put me if I played a part in that?  That scares me. 

But then if God is full of mercy and grace and can redeem all things... that is if there is a God then we should all be good right? 

I suppose we will never know for certain until the day comes and we leave this earth.

People are able to predicate there judgments based on what you believe, If I were to believe that massacring thousands of people would help me achieve salvation then you would come to the logical conclusion that I am an insidious person. What I am saying is that if your are susceptible to a particular set of beliefs then it may be easier to make a judgment based on that.

   You then try to rationalize you beliefs based on Pascal’s wager, which is such a ridiculously outdated argument that I’m not even going to consider it. 
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\"Moral clarity is frequently clouded by an unrelenting stream of micro-information from various sources on nearly every subject known to mankind.\"
-Ray Gattavara

\"All religions begin with a revolt against morality, and perish when morality conquers them.\"
-George Bernard Shaw
Patton
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« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2007, 06:08:41 AM »

You are free to skip over my posts. No one is forcing you to read them.

Two way street.

If you feel someone is trying to "force" their belief on you...ignore and walk away.

Quote from: D9
-In god we trust on the money, 
-Ten commandments in government buildings.   
-One nation under god in the pledge. 
-Trying to overturn R v W. 
-Against stem cell funding.
-Advocating for ID to be taught in science class.
-Against right to die. 
-Showing your religious symbols all over the place. 
-Missionaries traveling our country and the world trying to convert whoever they can.
-Billions spent on influencing political leaders.
-A massive Christian  TV and radio network.

Welcome to America...democracy in action...where decisions are made in the ballot box....don't like the concept of representative democracy?

I guess you could always move.

In a private survey conducted in 2001, 76.7 percent of American adults identified themselves as Christian, down from 86.4 percent in 1990.-WiKi

Wow. 3 out of 4 are Christian.

Quote
You still going to try and tell me how I'm forcing my beliefs on you?

If you advocate that 3 out of 4 Americans are to disavow their faith and how they believe government should have the hand of God upon it, then yes.
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« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2007, 06:41:48 AM »

They don't have to disavow their faith. It would just be nice if they could keep it to themselves rather than desperatly trying to gain power and control. This country wasn't set up to be a "Christian nation".  Did you notice that the constitution doesn't even mention "God"? 

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Patton
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« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2007, 06:56:54 AM »

It would just be nice if they could keep it to themselves rather than desperatly trying to gain power and control.

What "group" or "affiliation" or "ideology" IS NOT "desperatly trying to gain power and control" in American politics?

I do not believe your issue is with groups, affiliations and ideologies "desperatly trying to gain power and control"...it's just that Christians do a better job at it than your "group", "affiliation" and "ideology"

Quote
This country wasn't set up to be a "Christian nation".  Did you notice that the constitution doesn't even mention "God"?

It wasn't set up to expunge God from our society either.

The Constitution makes no mention of lots of things....since there is no specific reference to Gay Rights, should we ignore them?....anyway...many founding documents refer to a "Creator" or "God"...they just insert those words as "fluff?"...or did they believe what they wrote?
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

-George S. Patton
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2007, 08:08:31 AM »

It would just be nice if they could keep it to themselves rather than desperatly trying to gain power and control.

What "group" or "affiliation" or "ideology" IS NOT "desperatly trying to gain power and control" in American politics?

I do not believe your issue is with groups, affiliations and ideologies "desperatly trying to gain power and control"...it's just that Christians do a better job at it than your "group", "affiliation" and "ideology"

Quote
This country wasn't set up to be a "Christian nation".  Did you notice that the constitution doesn't even mention "God"?

It wasn't set up to expunge God from our society either.

The Constitution makes no mention of lots of things....since there is no specific reference to Gay Rights, should we ignore them?....anyway...many founding documents refer to a "Creator" or "God"...they just insert those words as "fluff?"...or did they believe what they wrote?

The constitution doesn't need to mention gay rights. It says all men were created equal. It's only an issue because religious wackos want it to be. Once again, Christians forcing their beliefs on everyone else.

We could argue all day about what the founding fathers thought about God.  This thread is supposed to be about what Christians agree on. Like I pointed out before, most of them agree that gays are not equal. Thats the club you're in buddy.
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Patton
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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2007, 11:04:50 AM »

The constitution doesn't need to mention gay rights. It says all men were created equal.

I see you refer to the original content of the Constitution.

What about this from Article I Section II:

Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Who was 3/5ths a person?  Sound equal to you?

What about Women...could they vote?  Sound equal to you?

Seems when this was written, all men WEREN'T equal.

Somehow the Constitution fixed it's oversight of rights conferred to certain groups...and all but ignores others, doesn't it?

Quote
We could argue all day about what the founding fathers thought about God.

Your right, we could...but something even you cannot dispute is that mentioning Him in founding documents must have meant something to them or else why mention Him at all?

Quote
Thats the club you're in buddy.

You make it sound like you cannot be pro-choice and be Republican...or anti-gay marriage and be Democrat...you REALLY believe that?

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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

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« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2007, 11:27:58 AM »

The constitution doesn't need to mention gay rights. It says all men were created equal.

I see you refer to the original content of the Constitution.

What about this from Article I Section II:

Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.

Who was 3/5ths a person?  Sound equal to you?

What about Women...could they vote?  Sound equal to you?

Seems when this was written, all men WEREN'T equal.

Somehow the Constitution fixed it's oversight of rights conferred to certain groups...and all but ignores others, doesn't it?

Quote
We could argue all day about what the founding fathers thought about God.

Your right, we could...but something even you cannot dispute is that mentioning Him in founding documents must have meant something to them or else why mention Him at all?

Quote
Thats the club you're in buddy.

You make it sound like you cannot be pro-choice and be Republican...or anti-gay marriage and be Democrat...you REALLY believe that?



You're right about not all men being equal. The Christians used the buybul to justify the ownership of slaves. After all, Jesus didn't have a problem with it. He could have done and said all sorts of things to try and stop slavery. He did nothing. This is a guy who you worship, sad.

It was mostly Christian conservatives that tried to keep Women from voting. Read your history. The buybul was written by men to give men more power. Anyone who can read can understand that.

It was and mostly still is Christian conservatives who are racists. Take a drive through the south some time. Racism is alive and well with Christians leading the way.

Thats the club you're in buddy. Your brothers in Christ. I would never join a group with such a horrible past, I'm better than that.
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« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2007, 11:47:02 AM »

What a load of crap.

Because some who claim to be Christian are bigot, you think that makes you somehow better than Patton and other Christians. Why should Patton answer for bigoted people he's never met, somewhere in the south.

TBH, I find your dogmatic us vs them mentality to be just as corrosive and divisive as anything I've seen from Christians. You should check out that church I used to go to. You all could have a great time burning bibles together.
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« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2007, 12:01:44 PM »

Classic D9.

Treat him like an adult and he resorts to insults and misrepresentation of facts.

You're right about not all men being equal.

Stark contradiction to what you stated earlier.

Quote
The Christians used the buybul to justify the ownership of slaves.

Perhaps you can demonstrate this?

Quote
After all, Jesus didn't have a problem with it. He could have done and said all sorts of things to try and stop slavery. He did nothing.

Seems He had more important things to do with the limited time he had...tell me how one man stands against all of Rome?

Quote
The buybul was written by men to give men more power.


Oh...I wonder why many think it was about the history of the Jewish people and how to obtain salvation...

Quote
It was and mostly still is Christian conservatives who are racists. Take a drive through the south some time. Racism is alive and well with Christians leading the way.

You should count the votes on the Civil Rights Act sometime.

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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

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« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2007, 01:41:34 PM »

Quote
Seems He had more important things to do with the limited time he had...tell me how one man stands against all of Rome?

 laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

That has got to be the most pathetic Christian excuse I've ever heard. Absolutely f'ing pathetic.

Somehow I think GOD could have found time to deal with the slave issue.

I guess kicking the money lenders out of the house of god was a better use of time than trying to stop slavery.  laugh laugh Those damn money lenders!!! Who cares about humans owning humans.

Your excuse is lame on so many levels. Maybe when God was talking to Paul during one of his personal revelations, he could have mentioned something about owning humans? I guess that would have been too much for God. Too many other things to talk about. Important stuff like how to worship him.

You are pathetic. Look at what ridiculous excuses you'll make for your hero savior.

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Patton
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« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2007, 03:46:37 PM »

That has got to be the most pathetic Christian excuse I've ever heard.

I'm sorry you seem confused, befuddled and bewildered about the purpose of Christ on Earth...I noticed you zero in on slavery and money lending...I'm surprised you didn't mention eradicating all disease, ending all war, dispensing with prostitution and destroying gay bath houses....I guess there was alot He didn't do with His time here.

I will say this once....if you cannot remain an adult when responding, you can choose to not reply, if you continue with this behavior...you can just read this forum and lose the ability to post.

At NO MOMENT did I EVER insult or degrade your belief or lack thereof.

If you have a question about what civility is, read the sticky.

Thinking you can treat ANYONE this way with no consequence is a mistake.
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Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood

-George S. Patton
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« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2007, 03:48:51 PM »

Quote
Seems He had more important things to do with the limited time he had...tell me how one man stands against all of Rome?

 laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh

That has got to be the most pathetic Christian excuse I've ever heard. Absolutely f'ing pathetic.

Somehow I think GOD could have found time to deal with the slave issue.

I guess kicking the money lenders out of the house of god was a better use of time than trying to stop slavery.  laugh laugh Those damn money lenders!!! Who cares about humans owning humans.

Your excuse is lame on so many levels. Maybe when God was talking to Paul during one of his personal revelations, he could have mentioned something about owning humans? I guess that would have been too much for God. Too many other things to talk about. Important stuff like how to worship him.

You are pathetic. Look at what ridiculous excuses you'll make for your hero savior.



Perhaps if you approached the topic with respect instead of putting 12 laughing faces on the thing and calling it pathetic they might listen to what you have to say. But insulting them and such will only further the frustration.

Now I think its a bit ridiculous as well, I mean if Jesus was the son of God you think he would've preached about many things (slavery, world hunger, moral issues, quantum mechanics) and solved more problems. Their are many things about christian beliefs that make me angry as well, but seriously this ranting isn't the way to approach it.
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