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Author Topic: Common Sense by Thomas Paine  (Read 450 times)
Philosofear
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2007, 04:58:10 PM »


Exactly, and to judge him after the fact is like critisizing Jefferson for owning slaves.

America would not have existed without Paine and his secular ideas. He and Franklin were chief among the FF that, for the first time in history, formed a Nation without an appeal to a supernatural being. The Consitution is notable, among other things, because of what it excludes: a god hypothesis.

Paine risked his life for the formation of America and the people who owed him, turned their back on him. He is one of the true luminaries in America history.

His writings are directly linked to creating a fervor in the American people to resist British rule. Baldar calls him Che, but Che was not the writer, statesman or major figure of the revolution that Paine was, and Paine was not the military man that Che was.

He, virtually, single-handedly roused the Pre-Americans from their woe and slumber to fight for Freedom.

Well articulated and I fully agree. Paine is one of my personal heroes for many of his ideals which were ahead of his time and for his book "The Age of Reason" which supports deism instead of theism.
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2007, 06:34:57 PM »


Exactly, and to judge him after the fact is like critisizing Jefferson for owning slaves.

America would not have existed without Paine and his secular ideas. He and Franklin were chief among the FF that, for the first time in history, formed a Nation without an appeal to a supernatural being. The Consitution is notable, among other things, because of what it excludes: a god hypothesis.

Paine risked his life for the formation of America and the people who owed him, turned their back on him. He is one of the true luminaries in America history.

His writings are directly linked to creating a fervor in the American people to resist British rule. Baldar calls him Che, but Che was not the writer, statesman or major figure of the revolution that Paine was, and Paine was not the military man that Che was.

He, virtually, single-handedly roused the Pre-Americans from their woe and slumber to fight for Freedom.

Well articulated and I fully agree. Paine is one of my personal heroes for many of his ideals which were ahead of his time and for his book "The Age of Reason" which supports deism instead of theism.

Well, I didn't say he was perfect.... Wink Grin
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Baldar
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2007, 08:19:05 PM »

I judge him based on the times and who he was at the times.  I don't do it after the fact, but in the context of the society he lived.  In fact, you are judging him "after the fact" wihtout understanding much about him beyond the quick read you do in wikipedia or some other such weak reference.

Quote
Paine risked his life for the formation of America and the people who owed him, turned their back on him. He is one of the true luminaries in America history.

In fact he didn't, and assiduously avoided any kind of military action (though he was a soldier of a sort).  He wasn't a revolutionary leader, his first pamphlet was written anonymously (only after it was wildly popular and he thought it was safe did he reveal he was the author ).  By most of the revolutionary leaders, including Jefferson, he was seen as a dangerous hot head and a bit of a coward.


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His writings are directly linked to creating a fervor in the American people to resist British rule. Baldar calls him Che, but Che was not the writer, statesman or major figure of the revolution that Paine was, and Paine was not the military man that Che was.

That is true.  Maybe it would be better to put him in the pantheon with Goebbels.

Quote
He, virtually, single-handedly roused the Pre-Americans from their woe and slumber to fight for Freedom.

In truth, he roused the less educated the way you do a lynch mob.  It worked great.  It got the colonists talking.

But judging by what his peers thought of him, I don't think there is much that is admirable about him personally.  He had that one incredible pamphlet that he wrote, a converging of the forces of the universe, time and place and that sort of thing, but if you judge him by the context of the times, and not through the middle school mythos of history, you would find the man extremely wanting.


By the way, I do like his writings and find them insightful, but I also don't entertain the myths of who he was.  So my point is for someone who constantly goes against myths or so called myths of religion, you in effect engage in the same thing you accuse others of doing.

A double standard?



« Last Edit: October 23, 2007, 08:32:28 PM by Baldar » Logged
Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2007, 01:12:06 AM »

You know... I vote public officials to serve me, not to listen to God in their wakefulness, if you know what I mean. Wink
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Baldar
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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2007, 06:11:48 AM »

Maybe "you" do.  And I am sure you believe its all about "you" and that "your" vote is the "standard" all voters should adhere to.

But then often people vote based on moral codes, belief systems, cultural connections, things that help them feel that the person they are voting for actually has the same idea when it comes to service, that they do.

Oh pooh, does that mean that those who elect officials in part because their moral codes are similar are not voting for officials to serve them?
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2007, 08:25:34 AM »

Maybe "you" do.  And I am sure you believe its all about "you" and that "your" vote is the "standard" all voters should adhere to.

But then often people vote based on moral codes, belief systems, cultural connections, things that help them feel that the person they are voting for actually has the same idea when it comes to service, that they do.

Oh pooh, does that mean that those who elect officials in part because their moral codes are similar are not voting for officials to serve them?

I guess this means you don't know what I meant... angel
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Baldar
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« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2007, 08:45:12 AM »

Or that you didn't explain what you meant very well.  sleepy
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