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Author Topic: The ice is really melting! No really!!  (Read 893 times)
freethinker
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« on: September 16, 2007, 01:55:03 AM »

 This should remove all doubt as to whether the globe is warming up or not
I think its kind of scary.
http://www.comcast.net/news/science/index.jsp?cat=SCIENCE&fn=/2007/09/16/764582.html&cvqh=itn_northwestpassage

Arctic Ice Melt Opens Northwest Passage
By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer
4 hours ago

PARIS - Arctic ice has shrunk to the lowest level on record, new satellite images show, raising the possibility that the Northwest Passage that eluded famous explorers will become an open shipping lane.

The European Space Agency said nearly 200 satellite photos this month taken together showed an ice-free passage along northern Canada, Alaska and Greenland, and ice retreating to its lowest level since such images were first taken in 1978.

The waters are exposing unexplored resources, and vessels could trim thousands of miles from Europe to Asia by bypassing the Panama Canal. The seasonal ebb and flow of ice levels has already opened up a slim summer window for ships.

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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2007, 02:32:11 AM »

You know what is telling? There's a crowd who will bang around how this opens a "big business opportunity" so GW "is good for us".

I guess that if Earth was slowly falling into the Sun, the same crowd would rejoice at the unique opportunity given to the A/C and refrigeration market... Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 02:59:20 AM by Major Zee Lee » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2007, 04:39:14 AM »

Global warming is a tragic reality. It just baffles me that people are able to condemn it with such an abundant amount of evidence, it actually makes me sick. This article just adds to the incontrovertible evidence supporting the presence of global warming on this planet. 
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« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2007, 01:17:46 PM »

The irony is that the global warming caused by fossile fuel burning will allow us to extract even more of those fossile fuels from the Artic.

Russian, Canadian and Norvegian companies are already prospecting...
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« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2007, 01:38:50 PM »

This should remove all doubt as to whether the globe is warming up or not

The issue isn't that global warming is occuring. It's if it's of a man-made origin. That's something science can't answer at this time.

Remember, these are the same scientists that were publishing books and horror scenerios in the 1970s about the impending mini Ice Age.
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2007, 02:10:25 PM »

This should remove all doubt as to whether the globe is warming up or not

The issue isn't that global warming is occuring. It's if it's of a man-made origin. That's something science can't answer at this time.

Remember, these are the same scientists that were publishing books and horror scenerios in the 1970s about the impending mini Ice Age.

First... there is no generalyzed doubt but a organized campaign of doubters and media whores campaigning against AGW.

Second, "scientists" where not foreseeing a ice age in the 70s. There was ONE short paper and then LOTS of media hype...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2007, 02:15:51 PM by Major Zee Lee » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2007, 02:20:49 PM »

First... there is no doubt but a organized camapign of doubters and media whores campaigning against AGW.

Second, "scientists" where not foreseeing a ice age in the 70s. There was ONE short paper and then LOTS of media hype.

Actually, many scientists disagree on what is causing the warming. And I'm a hard science advocate (don't ever engage me on topics like anthropology classification and cosmology).

Secondly, there was much more printed and peer reviewed than one "short paper" and "media hype". Don't know about you, but I have enough photocopies from books of the 70s (I research arctic exploration), nevermind reading them then, that proves your idea wrong.

Thirdly, it has zero to do with politics (I wish it wouldn't even exist in science, as there's enough debate with competing theories).
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chovy
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2007, 10:19:23 PM »

Another link about the Northwest passage melting...

Quote
"There has been a reduction of the ice cover over the last 10 years of about 100,000 square km per year on average, so a drop of one million square km in just one year is extreme."

Sounds pretty bad to me.
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freethinker
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« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2007, 12:55:38 AM »

 The favorite line of the detractors now is ,OK the world is warming but we don't know if it manmade or natural...
 What does that mean?? Does it mean theres a chance we didnt cause it so we wont try to stop putting the crap into the atmosphere that very likely is causeing it?
 The emmissions and gasses that we KNOW are bad for many many other reasons even if the world wasnt heating up.
 It will cost money thats thats the argument isn't it??  It will cost money to do the right thing... so we won't.
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chovy
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« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2007, 01:05:28 AM »

Nature will no doubt survive, as did life after the dinosaurs...the question is whether or not the human race is able to keep themselves from becoming extinct.
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2007, 02:28:02 AM »

(...)

Thirdly, it has zero to do with politics (I wish it wouldn't even exist in science, as there's enough debate with competing theories).

Statements like that are just deadly for your credibility. It's been about politics since IPCC was created in 1987 to assess politicians about Global Warming.

If ti was just abotu Science, there would be no noise, no films, no hype, no sectarianism. Science says GW is real and that man is playing a meaningful role in it and so man can undertake action to influence the evolution of the phenomenon. That's what Science says.

Then there's what is not Science, denialism of all kinds, most of it economically motivated but with a good bunch of politically motivated deniers. It's based on media hype, pseudoscience and non-peer-reviewed papers and op-eds, whcih are recast and spread across the Internet in such amount that it's hard to come by actual bona fide Science on the issue...
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chovy
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« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2007, 09:23:43 AM »

More about marketing than anything...once consumers get an affordable choice in how they live their lives, there will be change.

1) solar powered roofs
2) electric vehicle
3) work-from-home tax incentives


Once these three things are a viable, affordable choice I think there will be change.
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Timothy
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« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2007, 01:28:14 PM »

More about marketing than anything...once consumers get an affordable choice in how they live their lives, there will be change.

1) solar powered roofs
2) electric vehicle
3) work-from-home tax incentives


Once these three things are a viable, affordable choice I think there will be change.

It will probably take a vast movement (or a major investment upon someone or some group) to have these things happen more productively, but I agree it's more possible to have positive changes with those three things becoming more available.
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2007, 11:36:04 AM »

I am more worried of an ice age rather than the planet melting.  There is more of a chance of that happening as well. 

Either way we are screwed.  Humanity will prevail though.
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chovy
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2007, 11:56:20 PM »

Sounds like you've seen one too many hollywood movies.

Long term, we are going to go extinct...perhaps the next incarnation of "intelligent" beings on this planet will do better fundamentally -- even this bs proves how flawed we are.
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