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Author Topic: The ice is really melting! No really!!  (Read 902 times)
Timothy
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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2007, 08:24:31 AM »

Isn't knowing that we're going to "go extinct" enough of a warning to do everything we can to stop it from happening? Some countries are focused on power/influence... not the bigger picture that everyone is human, and there are only man-made boundaries (politically). What is it going to take to finally put all the effort toward wars toward positive solutions of problems such as hunger, disease, power consumption, lack of education, and homeslessness (couldn't think of a better word, the meaning is still understood I hope). Just imagine how quickly things could happen when time and money isn't spent on war, divine rights, and the need to have one's religion be the only one that is right...
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Gojira
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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2007, 10:23:32 AM »

Sounds like you've seen one too many hollywood movies.

 Cheesy

Where do you think they get their inspiration from?

Believe it or not there is another side to global warming that many don't realize.  Yet both yield the same outcomes of natural climate destruction. 

But whatever theory scares you more.  Grin
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2007, 07:08:37 AM »

Quote from: ChrisXP
Actually, many scientists disagree on what is causing the warming. And I'm a hard science advocate (don't ever engage me on topics like anthropology classification and cosmology).

Energy companies have spent hundreds of millions of dollars  to make people believe this. It isn't true.

Click on this link: January 10, 2007
Agency Affirms Human Influence on Climate


It's really SO simple.

A) Greenhouse theory: A widely accepted explanation of how greenhouse gasses trap UV radiation and increase temperatures.
B) Greenhouse gases have increased by about 50% since the advent of the industrial age. Coincidence? Not if you are willing to admit that industrial processes pump billions of tons of this stuff into the atmosphere.
C) Temperatures are rising.

Surprise!

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Elmerfudd
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2007, 07:14:35 PM »

My o My...but this thread sounds just like the "flame wars" that have been forbidden in the forum.  Remember the caveat, “solutions only”……… Roll Eyes
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2.DOH
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« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2007, 05:27:22 AM »

The favorite line of the detractors now is ,OK the world is warming but we don't know if it manmade or natural...
 What does that mean?? Does it mean theres a chance we didnt cause it so we wont try to stop putting the crap into the atmosphere that very likely is causeing it?

The likelyness isn't certain, however...Certainly not 'very likely'

Are Martians causing global warming on Mars?


From National Geographic:
Quote
Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says  
Kate Ravilious
for National Geographic News

February 28, 2007
Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human-induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.


Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.

Solar Cycles

Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.

Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories.

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

By studying fluctuations in the warmth of the sun, Abdussamatov believes he can see a pattern that fits with the ups and downs in climate we see on Earth and Mars.

Abdussamatov's work, however, has not been well received by other climate scientists.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming_2.html

The article appears pretty objective & includes quotes from detractors of Abdussamatov's work.
 


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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2007, 09:01:56 AM »

2.DOH, Abdussamatov just has failed to iron one little detail: he has not demonstrated that there's increased solar activity affecting Earth or Mars. Aside of that... Roll Eyes


(Not to mention how our knowledge about Mars climate is slim, whereas Mars climate is pretty alien. You know, up there there are winds blowing at 350 miles an hour and dust storms covering the whole friggin planet for 2 years...)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2007, 09:05:39 AM by Major Zee Lee » Logged

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2.DOH
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« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2007, 09:53:05 AM »

2.DOH, Abdussamatov just has failed to iron one little detail: he has not demonstrated that there's increased solar activity affecting Earth or Mars.

If there's an increase in the temperature of the sun, it makes sense that
the earth (& mars) would increase in temperature:

Quote
"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.




Quote from: Major Zee Lee
(Not to mention how our knowledge about Mars climate is slim, whereas Mars climate is pretty alien. You know, up there there are winds blowing at 350 miles an hour and dust storms covering the whole friggin planet for 2 years...)

NASA's Mars Odyssey has indicated warming on Mars as well.
Data collected indicates Mars could be on the tail end of an ice age.


Again, this study doesn't deny the effect of greenhouse gas. It questions
the magnitude of the effects vs the effect of the sun itself.
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zukiphile
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« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2007, 09:54:58 AM »

(Not to mention how our knowledge about Mars climate is slim, whereas Mars climate is pretty alien. You know, up there there are winds blowing at 350 miles an hour and dust storms covering the whole friggin planet for 2 years...)

Is your point that we should not draw conclusions based on limited knowledge?
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jpn of Seattle
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« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2007, 06:18:49 PM »

Quote
Global warming: not just heat, but humidity

By SETH BORENSTEIN

AP Science Writer

WASHINGTON — The world isn't just getting hotter from man-made global warming, it's getting stickier. It really is the humidity.

The amount of moisture in the air near the surface — the stuff that makes hot weather unbearable — increased 2.2 percent in just under three decades. And computer models show that the only explanation is man-made global warming, according to a study published in Thursday's journal Nature.

"This humidity change is an important contribution to heat stress in humans as a result of global warming," said Nathan Gillett of the University of East Anglia in the United Kingdom, a co-author of the study.

Gillett studied changes in specific humidity, which is a measurement of total moisture in the air, between 1973-2002. Increases in humidity can be dangerous to people because it makes the body less efficient at cooling itself, said University of Miami health and climate researcher Laurence Kalkstein. He was not connected with the research.

Humidity increased over most of the globe, including the eastern United States, said study co-author Katharine Willett, a climate researcher at Yale University. However, a few regions, including the U.S. West, South Africa and parts of Australia were drier.

http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=webhumidity10&date=20071010&query=global+warming

Rats. I hate humidity... Angry
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Gojira
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« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2007, 07:30:48 PM »

I think humidity is the least of our concerns but yeah I know what your saying:

It was 87 degrees yesterday (it's October) in Philadelphia.  Wtf!
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Major Zee Lee
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2007, 03:13:38 AM »

(Not to mention how our knowledge about Mars climate is slim, whereas Mars climate is pretty alien. You know, up there there are winds blowing at 350 miles an hour and dust storms covering the whole friggin planet for 2 years...)

Is your point that we should not draw conclusions based on limited knowledge?

Conclussions should not outrun knowledge. And as I said, our knowledge on Mars climate is slim.

We don't know what drives Mars climate or what is supposed to be "normal" climate in Mars. It's an alien world and we just don't know enough of it.

Also, notice how increased solar activity is a PREMISE in Abdussamatov's study, not a CONCLUSSION... and also notice how increased solar activity is effectively being accounted by climatologists and it can't explain GW on its own.
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zukiphile
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2007, 05:24:23 AM »

Conclussions should not outrun knowledge.

Wise words.  Let's keep that in mind when people bring up questions.
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2.DOH
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2007, 06:25:41 AM »

Once again, my post has vanished.

This shit is getting old.
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