|
micfranklin
|
 |
« on: November 08, 2007, 11:15:58 AM » |
|
HELSINKI, Finland (CNN) -- An 18-year-old authorities say shot eight people inside his high school in southern Finland, before turning the gun on himself, has died, police said. The shooting appeared to have been planned out in graphic videos posted on Internet file-sharing site YouTube. At a news conference this afternoon, police confirmed the dead numbered two girls, five boys and the school's headmistress at Jokela High in Tuusula, a quiet town around 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of Helsinki. Ten other people were taken to a hospital with minor injuries. http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/11/07/school.shooting/index.htmlI was surprised that a thread based on this incident hasn't been posted yet. For those in doubt, this goes to show that school shootings are not just confined to America and this one ended with the same result as VT: the killer kills himself. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
tejtej
ta terjast
Global Moderator
Full Member
Karma: +22/-2
Posts: 140
a.k.a. COS
|
|
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2007, 01:38:06 PM » |
|
Psychopaths can be found in all countries.
And of course, before anyone else mentions it, Finland is a country with 41-69 (low and high estimates) guns per 100 residents (Small Arms Survey 2007). Highest among european countries in the study.
In general, shooting sprees are not that rare outside of US, there were some in schools before (I remember Germany a few years ago) and a lot more of in domestic disputes. Today in Croatia, a 40 year old man killed 5 other family members, including a 7 year old and a 2 month old child.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Slovenc, tvoja zemlja je zdrava in pridnim nje lega najprava.
Pólje, vinograd, gora, morjé, ruda, kupčija tebe rede.
|
|
|
Major Zee Lee
Forum cat lover
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +64/-169
Posts: 566
Kooks not allowed in (Secret meeting is next door)
|
|
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2007, 01:40:36 PM » |
|
Just a piece of data...
Finland has got the 3rd highest ratio of guns per citizen in the world, behind USA and Canada, although its gun laws are far more restrictive than those of the countries above.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do not take life too seriously; nobody lives to tell.
|
|
|
|
micfranklin
|
|
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2007, 03:23:07 PM » |
|
Just a piece of data...
Finland has got the 3rd highest ratio of guns per citizen in the world, behind USA and Canada, although its gun laws are far more restrictive than those of the countries above.
Which two countries are above, because apparently gun laws had no effect on this kid just like they had no effect on other school killers. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Totino
High Society
Hero Member
Karma: +105/-133
Posts: 1,354
|
|
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2007, 08:58:14 PM » |
|
It's just another story of a loonie. It has nothing to do with guns and the need for more gun control. The facts are gun control makes things worse.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
 \\\"Since you\\\'re going to loose everything anyway when you die, you might as well get rid of it now\\\" \\\"All creations, including god, originate in the mind\\\" |
|
|
tejtej
ta terjast
Global Moderator
Full Member
Karma: +22/-2
Posts: 140
a.k.a. COS
|
|
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2007, 10:05:16 PM » |
|
It's just another story of a loonie. It has nothing to do with guns and the need for more gun control. Good summary. The facts are gun control makes things worse. This is not a fact. The problem with guns vs. control is that every country is a specific case. Solutions that reduce abuse of guns (hm... that is probably not the right expression) in one country will not work in all other countries. Can we agree on that? |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 10:06:59 PM by tejtej »
|
Logged
|
Slovenc, tvoja zemlja je zdrava in pridnim nje lega najprava.
Pólje, vinograd, gora, morjé, ruda, kupčija tebe rede.
|
|
|
Major Zee Lee
Forum cat lover
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +64/-169
Posts: 566
Kooks not allowed in (Secret meeting is next door)
|
|
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2007, 03:38:56 AM » |
|
There are two points I would like to consider... First, the more guns there are, the easier is to get a gun. And the more nutbags there are, the easier it is that nutbag gets a gun and becomes a shooter. Nto controlling guns and not controlling nutbags jsut calls for having lors of armed nutbags causing lots of shootings. Second, culture factors. The nutbag is influenced by the culture where he lives in. If your culture says thta shooting at people is a way to resolve certain situations, logically that's what you will think to do... even if the "situation" are all the idiots despising you at school. This may sound rough, but give it all the fine detail you want to and sitll it holds water: in the USA, shooting at people is a part of culture (self-defense, 2nd ammendment)much more than it is in India or in European countries. And so you have a culture that loves guns and which includes shooting at people as acceptable behavior(the bad guys, of course, but the message is "shoot at them" nonetheless), and that culture is in a country with the highest murder rate in developed countries. A country where murder by firearms alone is twice the amount of all murder by any mean in the civilized world. It is twice as likely to be shot dead in the USA as to be murdered at all in any other developed country! And yet where si the difference? Is in amount of guns? Not so much. Is in tolerance of guns? Yes, but tighter controls can't prevent nutbags from gettign guns (specially if there are lots of guns) Is violence in pop culture? Not, as American pop culture with violence is exported abroad. Is in crime rate? Violent crime in the USA is not significantly higher than in other developed countries (murder prevalence accounted) And what about culture? Ah, the differences here are meaningful. So maybe is that... not guns, or laws, or even nutbags... but the very "gun violence culture" in the USA. "Have a problen? Shoot at it". For some reason, that occurs far easily to American than to any other citizen in the developed countries. And the reason must be in the USA themselves. Maybe, I suggest, is the attitude towards guns...  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Do not take life too seriously; nobody lives to tell.
|
|
|
|
micfranklin
|
|
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2007, 06:05:34 AM » |
|
So maybe is that... not guns, or laws, or even nutbags... but the very "gun violence culture" in the USA. "Have a problen? Shoot at it". For some reason, that occurs far easily to American than to any other citizen in the developed countries. And the reason must be in the USA themselves. Maybe, I suggest, is the attitude towards guns... So it's America's fault this kid shot up a school and then killed himself? It's our fault he posted his video on YouTube? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
14-years-old-jane
|
|
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2007, 06:38:39 AM » |
|
If i was living in such a boring place like Finland i would shoot ppl as well,,, youngsters in there can do 2 things :
1.take heroin
2.play pc games,,,
nothing more,,, some combine both,, they pass some first person shooter game with all possible medals and then buy a gun and take it to another level,,,
what else would you do if you were living in place with 24/7 snow and ppl with dumb faces
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 06:42:35 AM by 14-years-old-jane »
|
Logged
|
Each time homosexuals make sex, 1-2 babies die and 1-2 constipations are solved ...
|
|
|
bringbackwigs
Professional Post-Whore
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-183
Posts: 3,103
Please refrain from taking my posts seriously
|
|
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2007, 06:41:27 AM » |
|
Ahh, Finland. Home of the craziest death metal you've ever heard and has more Satanists per capita then any other country. In other words, my retirement home.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain  |
|
|
|
2112
|
|
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2007, 06:42:48 AM » |
|
I think we are all missing the point, the crazy young man got the cajones to do it from YouTube. That seems to be the point of the article.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
micfranklin
|
|
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2007, 06:43:47 AM » |
|
If i was living in such a boring place like Finland i would shoot ppl as well,,, youngsters in there can do 2 things :
1.take heroin
2.play pc games,,,
nothing more,,, some combine both,, they pass some first person shooter game with all possible medals and then buy a gun and take it to another level,,,
what else would you do if you were living in place with 24/7 snow and ppl with dumb faces
Snowboarding? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
bringbackwigs
Professional Post-Whore
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Karma: +156/-183
Posts: 3,103
Please refrain from taking my posts seriously
|
|
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2007, 06:45:27 AM » |
|
I think we are all missing the point, the crazy young man got the cajones to do it from YouTube. That seems to be the point of the article.
So, YouTube creates killers? Guns don't kill people, You Tube kills people. Print the t-shirts, people! |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
In religion and politics, people\\\\\\\\\'s beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second hand, and without examination. - Mark Twain |
|
|
|
14-years-old-jane
|
|
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2007, 06:46:01 AM » |
|
i don't think Fins like Yanks much,,, but yes Fins probably the craziest musicians in the world (any type of music),,, which brings us back to their childhood,,, pacman and heroin
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Each time homosexuals make sex, 1-2 babies die and 1-2 constipations are solved ...
|
|
|
|
2112
|
|
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2007, 06:46:40 AM » |
|
Well he posted his plans on Youtube, I'm not sure what that means, a music video? He obviously wanted to share his passion for... whatever he posted.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
