OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2007, 06:27:37 PM » |
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What I favor is Social Fascism. Under this system, nationalization would replace capitalism. The Motherland would furnish its citizenry with basic necessities in return for work and security. There would be massive programs of public works (hospitals, schools, roads, parks etc.). The foreign policy would be strictly non-interventionist and isolationist. Persons not loyal to the Motherland would be forced to leave-no concentration camps. There would be eugenics from which would come future leadership. There would be religious freedom, but no religious interference with the running of the Motherland. How is that?
OswaldTheOsprey
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illy
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illerino if youre not into the whole brevity thing
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« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2007, 07:35:41 PM » |
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Are we talking centralized control or decentralized control?
Different sectors would be different, but generally what do you have in mind.
My view is that ideally workers should have control on a local level over production. The current situation is not ideal, IMO, but I think state centralization of control is a step in the wrong direction.
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« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 07:37:14 PM by illy »
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2007, 08:19:35 PM » |
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Are we talking centralized control or decentralized control?
Different sectors would be different, but generally what do you have in mind.
My view is that ideally workers should have control on a local level over production. The current situation is not ideal, IMO, but I think state centralization of control is a step in the wrong direction.
Perhaps for some. However, others may choose such a course to prevent the abuses inherent in multinationals and international high finance. OswaldTheOsprey |
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IamMe
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« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2007, 11:50:34 AM » |
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Persons not loyal to the Motherland would be forced to leave-no concentration camps.
So the government of the state can deport it's political opponents? |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
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illy
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illerino if youre not into the whole brevity thing
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« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2007, 11:59:04 AM » |
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Are we talking centralized control or decentralized control?
Different sectors would be different, but generally what do you have in mind.
My view is that ideally workers should have control on a local level over production. The current situation is not ideal, IMO, but I think state centralization of control is a step in the wrong direction.
Perhaps for some. However, others may choose such a course to prevent the abuses inherent in multinationals and international high finance. OswaldTheOsprey I would agree that abuse is inherent in business. Anything that will help the bottom line is inherent in business. Still, what reason do we have to believe that more centralized control will be any more effective at combating the abuses? We already have a lot of regulations that are largely ignored when it comes to enforcement. Regulation tends to come under the influence of those being regulated, IMO, further centralization of control does not answer how this would be prevented. Your idea is interesting, but how do you know that the same fools pulling strings currently wouldn't find a way to convert their power to the new system? |
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Ammunition spitting is him, is it, you listening
Littering written, it\\'s in slippers, get the rebel in him
Sticking it with sinners, sizzlin\\' rhythm, verbally hit him
Did he did it, or did he didn\\'t, admit it -
Rugged Man - Give it Up
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2007, 08:59:59 PM » |
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Persons not loyal to the Motherland would be forced to leave-no concentration camps.
So the government of the state can deport it's political opponents? Of course. OswaldTheOsprey |
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tadpol
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« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2007, 01:37:12 AM » |
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"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."
I'm curious how you answer Mr. Madison's concerns. Who watches the watchers?
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2007, 09:26:15 AM » |
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"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."
I'm curious how you answer Mr. Madison's concerns. Who watches the watchers?
All of the Motherland watches the watchers. OswaldTheOsprey |
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IamMe
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« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2007, 01:50:08 PM » |
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"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."
I'm curious how you answer Mr. Madison's concerns. Who watches the watchers?
All of the Motherland watches the watchers. OswaldTheOsprey This is fascism we're talking about not democracy. It doesn't matter how much 'the motherland'  watches the watchers - if they don't like what's happening there's fuck all they can do about it. |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2007, 01:58:52 PM » |
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"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."
I'm curious how you answer Mr. Madison's concerns. Who watches the watchers?
All of the Motherland watches the watchers. OswaldTheOsprey This is fascism we're talking about not democracy. It doesn't matter how much 'the motherland' watches the watchers - if they don't like what's happening there's fuck all they can do about it. I am a Social Fascist and I detest democracy. OswaldTheOsprey |
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IamMe
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« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2007, 02:03:48 PM » |
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"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."
I'm curious how you answer Mr. Madison's concerns. Who watches the watchers?
All of the Motherland watches the watchers. OswaldTheOsprey This is fascism we're talking about not democracy. It doesn't matter how much 'the motherland' watches the watchers - if they don't like what's happening there's fuck all they can do about it. I am a Social Fascist and I detest democracy. OswaldTheOsprey I understand that. Now could you address the question? What's the point in "watching the watchers" if there's fuck all you can do about any of it? |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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IamMe
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« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2007, 02:06:04 PM » |
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Persons not loyal to the Motherland would be forced to leave-no concentration camps.
So the government of the state can deport it's political opponents? Of course. OswaldTheOsprey And you don't see why that is a bad thing? |
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\\\\"Anarchism is the ideal to which all societies should approximate\\\\" - Bertrand Russell
If you strike me down I shall become more dead than you can ever imagine.
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2007, 02:29:15 PM » |
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"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."
I'm curious how you answer Mr. Madison's concerns. Who watches the watchers?
All of the Motherland watches the watchers. OswaldTheOsprey This is fascism we're talking about not democracy. It doesn't matter how much 'the motherland' watches the watchers - if they don't like what's happening there's fuck all they can do about it. I am a Social Fascist and I detest democracy. OswaldTheOsprey I understand that. Now could you address the question? What's the point in "watching the watchers" if there's fuck all you can do about any of it? What's the point of continuing in corrupt capitalism and democracy? So we can have more senseless and evil wars, more Clintons and Bushes? OswaldTheOsprey |
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daedalus 2.0
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« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2007, 08:41:48 AM » |
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So, we don't have to live in a Fascist State?
Ironically, it sounds like we are in a Fascist State, so why would you complain? You have what you want!
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\\\\"SUCK IT, JESUS!\\\\" Kathy Griffin
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God burns Anne Frank for eternity, and it\'s Just.\"Anon
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OswaldTheOsprey
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« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2007, 09:50:52 AM » |
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So, we don't have to live in a Fascist State?
Ironically, it sounds like we are in a Fascist State, so why would you complain? You have what you want!
We do not live in a fascist state. We live in a land of selfishness and nihilism. OswaldTheOsprey |
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